When a guy tells a woman she's beautiful and she either says that she knows or gives an unmoved expression that indicates that the sentiment isn't worth much is this just straight up hubris? — TiredThinker

This is not my experience. Your observations read like you have some resentment towards women.

My first wife was a model and attractive. You never, ever commented on her beauty. She'd been hit on by sleazy men since she was 14 years-old and preferred not to engage about her appearance at all. Worked fine with me. My experience is that attractive people tend to attract the wrong kinds of attention from the wrong people and are often lonely.

Yeah, that "overconfidence" expresses her will to power. Why does that threaten you?

When a guy tells a woman she's beautiful and she either says that she knows or gives an unmoved expression that indicates that the sentiment isn't worth much is this just straight up hubris? I understand beauty can be measured to some degree scientifically, but is there ever any purpose to being so confident in a quality that in and of itself probably has no substance? I find it annoying when women seem to think so highly of themselves when in truth they don't look that great in my opinion. I find overconfidence keeps people from communicating and really getting to know one another. Is there a purpose for thinking so positively and absolutely about ones appearance? — TiredThinker

Hang - you’re saying yourself that beauty as a quality probably has no substance, and yet you’re annoyed that telling a woman she has this insubstantial quality doesn’t render her grateful to you for saying so?

I’ve been told ‘you’re beautiful’ by guys before, and I’ll be honest: the sentiment really isn’t worth much on its own. All women these days have to understand that they are beautiful in their own way. This is how we counteract everyone who tries to make us believe that our worth is only in our appearance. I know I’m not exceptionally beautiful - it’s a relative term. If I look around and see that almost everyone’s hooked up except me and this guy who’s just wandered over, then he’s probably not saying that he finds me exceptionally beautiful - but that I’m a beautiful alternative to going home alone. I’m beautiful enough for the situation.

If a woman is unimpressed by your superficial flattery, I’d suggest you try harder to understand who she really is.

Don’t tell me I’m attractive or beautiful... tell me I’m a beautiful person and that you’re attracted to my sense of humour.
Don’t text me about how hot I am. Look into my eyes and tell me of my warmth.
Tell me I have a great mind that arouses your intellect.
Tell me one thing that I really am that you actually love...something that will last.
Because I need to know that you can feel the depths of my soul and are not just fascinated by the shallow reflection on the surface. — Kalsoom Akhter Kohli

Perhaps it depends on how you say it and what you mean when you say it. according to my experience if you love someone they will look beautiful to you regardless of whether they have the kind of looks that are generally associated with being highly physically attractive.

Hang - you’re saying yourself that beauty as a quality probably has no substance, and yet you’re annoyed that telling a woman she has this insubstantial quality doesn’t render her grateful to you for saying so? — Possibility

That.

Context matters. 'How you say' much more so than 'what you say' matters. Confidence is attractive; resentment jock-strapped by arrogant presumption is usually a turn-off.

You saw an attractive woman and told her that, and it was meant by you as an invitation for additional conversation. She declined by offering you a shrug. There is nothing unusual, rude, or inappropriate of that interaction, and something similar plays out at bars, grocery stores, high school gymnasiums, and tinder.com thousands of times daily.

Where you go from there is up to you. The ick factor many here have identified is in your internal response, where you have chosen to go hostile, getting annoyed at her for being rude, stuck up, and uncaring for your feelings. This speaks to your caring what she thinks about you, and so your response is understandable. It's protective of a bruised ego, convincing yourself she wasn't worth your time anyway.

If you're going to emotionally invest in the outcome of every romantic attempt, you're going to be a bitter young man. Just move on. Who cares what she thinks? You should have already served up a dozen or so more compliments by now, but instead you're here, doing a post-mortem on something she has no idea was of any importance.

And do empathize some for her as well. She was just standing there, minding her own business, then received an unsolicited comment, and now she is being expected to respond in a certain way, and, if she doesn't, she will be thought less of. It's why girls don't want to go to bars alone, for fear of swarming guys and fragile egos offering attacks when they are shot down.

Sometimes it's not about what is said, but who is saying it. Compliments can be a fraught game of social power - especially from men, who then expect the women they complement to then act 'nice' in return. And then there's the danger of men who, when women do not conform to the image they expect of them, after probably imposing on their time and space, find them 'annoying' - as if the latter owed them anything whatsoever.

How often woman have thrown that beauty comment in my direction... Boring...

When a guy tells a woman she's beautiful.... — TiredThinker

That's like the fellow who told Cyrano his nose was "rather large."

It doesn't threaten me. I just think people shouldn't blind themselves with things that are empty and aren't accomplishments.

I don't require gratefulness for a compliment. My point is some people think their beauty is factual in all circumstances. And as far as complimenting someone on their personality that would be my first approach if I knew them well enough at that point.

Surely there are women or men that think they are qualified for say a sales job because they are attractive even if they know this isn't a skill set. It is unfounded confidence that annoys me. Whether it is billionaires thinking they have all the skills mom and pop businesses wish they had, or doctors from an Ivy league school that don't think conversing with a more average person could inspire any knew knowledge. My point is confidence beyond a certain point surely must be wasteful.

Who are you to impose – on what grounds should another accept – a standard against (your subjective appraisal of) "things that are empty and aren't accomplishments"? Beauty should not be celebrated for its own sake? Then why do you feel the need to acknowledge a woman's beauty? Okay, it's nothing special, and she replies "I know"; yet her acknowledgement of that very same beauty you remarked on is somehow less warranted than your acknowledgement. Why the double standard, Tired Thinker, if you're "not threatened"?

When a guy tells a woman she's beautiful and she either says that she knows or gives an unmoved expression that indicates that the sentiment isn't worth much is this just straight up hubris? — TiredThinker

Because the guy had chosen the 'wrong' person to give compliments to. He should save it for someone deserving of that compliment. When he tells me I'm beautiful, I could almost cry. That's how strong it is to me. Because I know he's saying much more than the physical thing he's seeing -- he is saying something inside him that's also beautiful. And he's sharing it with me. That's vulnerability I wouldn't trade for the world. (Well, not the world, lol, but you get my point).

Guys, don't waste your time on someone who can't give you the same quality feeling. Look beyond the physical thing. Save your precious compliments for another time, when the right one comes along.

Defense mechanism and insecurity most likely. The example of 'women' in particular is something people are ready to take offense by because the current political climate warrents a heightened vigilance for sexism due to media outlets and youthful naivety.

In general I can understand why you mentioned women in particular, but you certainly aimed the question in a more general sense so I responded to that.

I find it annoying when women seem to think so highly of themselves when in truth they don't look that great in my opinion. I find overconfidence keeps people from communicating and really getting to know one another. Is there a purpose for thinking so positively and absolutely about ones appearance? — TiredThinker

I find this annoying in either sex. Some people can pull it off though usually with comedic insincerity :) Often 'overconfidence' in this sense is not sincere at all - more fun poking than arrogance.

I have found a lot of people who are considered by people to be 'physically attractive' often don't know it because people tend to focus on their self-perceived 'negative' features.

In bold ... other than obvious items, like our tendencies to make assumptions at face value, it is just part of emotional maturity. Some peopel develop faster than others and some people probably have a lesser 'capacity' for suich development.

Does such a thing prevetn people from getting to knwo one another? I don't really think so. If people are highly judgemental then they tend to paint a picture of someone fairly quickly and fairly inaccurately. That can be a big issue because the 'first impression' does make quite a difference and is hard to overcome if one is 'emotionally underdeveloped' or numerous other things to boot.

Confidence is probably one of the most attractive attributes individaual humans possess. Like anything too much is too much. Returning to 'judgement' there is also something to be said of people throwing out their 'opinions' of someone ... why? To flatter/seduce? This can make us uneasy too. If someone stopped me in the street and said they liked my dress sense or eyes, or whatever, I would assume they are trying to sell me something. As is often the case the context is paramount.

The exceptions to generalised rules are usually more interesting than not :)

Have it, flaunt it! Isn't that a rule of life?

I take it - beauty recognizing itself - as part of the Socratic principle of temet nosce. It's odd that people say things like, "you have the brains, use it" but never in my life (never say never) have I heard someone say, "you're beautiful, use it." Is this part of some mind game we're totally in the dark about? I dunno. Sounds interesting. It appears that, like some stroke patients, we're blind to, ignoring, an aspect (the physical plane) of our being. Amazing!

↪TiredThinker Who are you to impose – on what grounds should another accept – a standard against (your subjective appraisal of) "things that are empty and aren't accomplishments"? Beauty should not be celebrated for its own sake? Then why do you feel the need to acknowledge a woman's beauty? Okay, it's nothing special, and she replies "I know"; yet her acknowledgement of that very same beauty you remarked on is somehow less warranted than your acknowledgement. Why the double standard, Tired Thinker, if you're "not threatened"? — 180 Proof

:up:

:ok:

@TiredThinker has deep trouble with women. We should be cautious...

Beauty might be empty but it means one can be sure of love.

I don't require gratefulness for a compliment. My point is some people think their beauty is factual in all circumstances. And as far as complimenting someone on their personality that would be my first approach if I knew them well enough at that point. — TiredThinker

Yet you clearly expect something in return for this compliment, which you’re not getting. You’re also presuming that her response of ‘I know’ is used in all circumstances. She may have perceived this guy and his compliment coming from a mile away, based on his body language long before he opened his mouth. That’s not his fault, but she’s either not interested - in which case her response is rapidly effective - or she expected more from his opening line than an evaluation, as if she’s there waiting for his appraisal. Perhaps what she means is ‘...and...?’

How about him giving some indication that he’s not just looking for surface value? That he perceives her as a human being with her own mind? You don’t have to know someone very well at all to make that kind of assumption.

TiredThinker has deep trouble with women. We should be cautious... — Accounting

Cautious of what?

People also say a person is beautiful inside and out when both apply but never say they are beautiful on the inside (in a public manner anyway) when only one applies.

People also say a person is beautiful inside and out when both apply but never say they are beautiful on the inside (in a public manner anyway) when only one applies. — TiredThinker

Brains (omniscience), Brawn (omnipotent), and Bonum (omnibenevolent) = God, the perfect man

Surely then,

Brains (omniscience), Beauty (omniaesthetic), and Bonum (omnibenevolent) = Goddess, the perfect woman

Muscular Christianity (brawn)

Christian manliness (brains + bonum)

It's odd that people say things like, "you have the brains, use it" but never in my life (never say never) have I heard someone say, "you're beautiful, use it." — TheMadFool

It would probably depend on the particular society and culture we are talking about.

In the Western world (some) women do get told things like “you could be a model” or “you could be a movie star”, or even encouraged to become one on account of their good looks.

I think physical attractiveness is a personal asset like any other one, and can perfectly well be used to advance one’s career, to find a partner, or whatever. After all, humans learn how to manipulate others in many ways from an early age and looks, including in terms of what we wear, are used to make a certain impression on others or elicit a certain response from them.

Hence, the not unheard-of question, "Do I look good in this"? :smile:

I find it annoying when women seem to think so highly of themselves when in truth they don't look that great in my opinion. — TiredThinker

I think this can be annoying both in men and women.

But is your complaint about women who think they look great without actually looking great, or about women who don't care about you telling them that they look great?

Have it, flaunt it! Isn't that a rule of life?

I take it - beauty recognizing itself - as part of the Socratic principle of temet nosce. It's odd that people say things like, "you have the brains, use it" but never in my life (never say never) have I heard someone say, "you're beautiful, use it." Is this part of some mind game we're totally in the dark about? I dunno. Sounds interesting. It appears that, like some stroke patients, we're blind to, ignoring, an aspect (the physical plane) of our being. Amazing! — TheMadFool

Not a rule of life, in my opinion. Brains you can certainly use or not use. Beauty is something you can take advantage of, but there can be a discrepancy or uncertainty between who has the beauty and who has the advantage that simply isn’t the case with brains. And there are plenty of situations where someone says things like, “If you’ve got it...” which implies that one use beauty to their own advantage.

An intelligent person with beauty understands when to ‘use it’ and when not to, and will not be dictated to otherwise. There are many situations where what appears to be ‘using your beauty’ actually enables a transfer of power to someone else that may prove difficult to retrieve.

People also say a person is beautiful inside and out when both apply but never say they are beautiful on the inside (in a public manner anyway) when only one applies. — TiredThinker

Because we can simply say they are ‘a beautiful person’, which acknowledges them as not just a facade.

Perhaps it depends on how you say it and what you mean when you say it. according to my experience if you love someone they will look beautiful to you regardless of whether they have the kind of looks that are generally associated with being highly physically attractive. — Janus

There are two types of women, and, I assume, men 1) beautiful and 2) beautiful if I loved them.

I really like the way people look, especially when they make an effort, especially clothing and hair. I often comment to both men and women, although women wear interesting and attractive clothing and hair much more often than men. If I'm going to say something to a woman I don't know, I sometimes say "I hope you don't mind if I say this..." Then I say something like "I really like your dress," or "Your hair looks great," or my favorite "I really like the color of your hair." I love hair color, the wilder the better. I saw a woman with short hair dyed bright yellow. I said "I love your hair, is that it's natural color?"

Almost all women I've talked to have reacted well to this kind of approach. For many, most, I can see they appreciate what I've said. I don't remember ever getting a negative reaction. I always make it clear by the way I approach that there is no ulterior motive for my comments.

I'm sure it helps that I'm 69 years old.

This post in general is about any confidence that gets into the realm of absolute. But in terms of a handful of women that think their beauty is certain I am annoyed when they give a gesture to indicate that this was something they already knew and are neither complimented or disgusted by the words. It seems to show a lack of empathy.

It seems to show a lack of empathy. — TiredThinker

They don't owe you a show of empathy.