Can't read, can you?

Next time, think things through beyond the bare surface level before making such ignorant statements.

Says the guy totally misrepresenting what I said. Maybe next time read first and write later.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2027

the rich world is refusing to share vaccines with poorer countries speedily or equitably. Whereas 60% of the population in the UK is fully vaccinated, in Uganda it is only 1%.6 The 50 least wealthy nations, home to 20% of the world’s population, have received just 2% of all vaccine doses.8 The rich world should be ashamed.

WHO’s director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, called global vaccine inequity “grotesque,” a recipe for seeding viral variants capable of escaping vaccines, and a “moral outrage.”

Some vaccine-rich countries are now destroying excess, unused doses.18 And some have imposed export bans and restrictions to protect their stockpiles. Ironically, vaccine companies prevent poorer countries from insisting on similar measures.

This moral scandal, enabled by corporate and political permission of mass death, is tantamount to a crime against humanity. Yet we too are complicit by our silence. Why are workers and shareholders at vaccine companies not speaking out? Where are the academics clamouring to make the “fruits of the scientific enterprise” available to all? Where are the lawyers demanding global justice and corporate accountability? Which leaders of rich nations are pressuring vaccine companies to make their people safe by making the world safe? Where is the grassroots mobilisation of scientists and health workers to fight for fair access to vaccines?

It is in a sub forum of politics and current affairs. It is a philosophical discussion of a current affairs issue.

OK

Why lockdowns don't work for the delta variant.

:grin:

Why we have to donate? Didn’t say they do not want anything from Spain anymore? Aren’t we supposed to be the bad persons due to conquista?
Spain has not obligations towards Latin America — javi2541997

It.s not only selfish, it's shortsighted. If covid infections run rampant in poorer countries due to lack of vaccine supplies there will be greater chance of mutant strains arising, which then may then go on to spread to the "developed" nations.

Have you glanced at a comparison of American covid statistics to just about anybody else? The only reason the US hasn't generated the Omega Death Variant yet is no reason at all. It's just accidental.

Yes, it's just accidental. But that doesn't change the fact that the more infection is spreading the more chance there is of mutant strains arising (which may or not be more virulent of course)
.

is it true that influenza is no longer mutating? When will the new coronavirus stop mutating?

Also, what is your profile picture?

I'm no expert but I believe the flu virus continues to mutate and as to the coronavirus I doubt that is predictable. My profile picture is a photoshopped image of the sun with a photoshopped blue spider on it.

But that doesn't change the fact that the more infection is spreading the more chance there is of mutant strains arising — Janus

Which is why it's a priority to stop it in the US. We do more replication of the virus than anyone else, so we're the danger to the world.

That article is accurate, but the alternative to lockdowns - 'letting it rip' - would surely generate many thousands more infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, wouldn't it? It is obviously extremely difficult to suppress let alone eliminate, but I can't see much alternative to locking down, at least until the vaccination rates are higher. Delta seems to have much greater effects on the young than did the alpha version.

I only know one person who got infected at the beginning - she and her husband had retired and bought a yacht, and were moored in Barcelona when the Spanish contagion broke out. She self-isolated for a month in a cabin in the yacht, which, she said, was hellish. There was no way to even get tested, and the hospitals would only admit those who were literally on death's door. They made it back to Sydney in June 20, and she did recover, but is a COVID long-hauler, it's had a very long term effect on her respiratory system which even now, eighteen months later, she's still suffering from. The point being, even though there are asymptomatic cases, it can be an extremely nasty disease, and it can kill.

It would tear a new butthole for Sydney if they ended the lockdown now. They'll have to meet it in the middle: infections and vaccinations will both increase until they reach a new normal, which is the way it has to be if you think about it. Vaccination rates will be low as long as people aren't fearing for their safety. This surge is mild, but enough to wake people up to the reality.

This is not a failure of your government.

:up: Glad you see it like that.

But you surely can't be doing more replication of virus per capita, being a highly vaccinated society, than a poor country who has only 2 percent of its population vaccinated. Couple that with the lack of decent medical facilities in poorer countries and I think there's a good argument to sacrifice some of the vaccine stocks in the richer nations to go to the poorer.

We do more replication of the virus than anyone else, so we're the danger to the world. — frank

Well, none of the VOCs have come from the US thus far.

Look at where the cases are rising most, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table, It's not the US.

US stands at 106 doses per person, India (with about the same number of cases) has managed just 39. Places like Botswana, which have nearly double the per capita cases than the US have just 16, and with COVAX being stingily thrown the scraps and drug companies deliberately throttling new developments, it doesn't look like they're going to get much more... But hey, I'm sure it's all the fault of those damn anti-vaxxers somehow...mustn't let any actual complexity or nuance spoil the nice little Disney movie they'll make of this next year...I'm picturing Chris Hemsworth as Pfizer CEO, tirelessly making money saving lives by stockpiling vaccines in the countries that can afford to pay for them need them most... such a shame Alan Rickman is no longer with us to play the evil anti-vax leader...so difficult to cast a good villain these days...

I think there's a good argument to sacrifice some of the vaccine stocks in the richer nations to go to the poorer. — Janus

They have been.. I think the AZ vaccine is the best option for developing nations because it doesn't have to be frozen and it's substantially cheaper than Pfizer or Moderna.

Well, none of the VOCs have come from the US thus far. — Isaac

I think that's just accidental.

They have been.. — frank

Your source...

The US will share up to 60 million doses of its AstraZeneca vaccine with other countries as they become available

The question was over how many the US actually have shared, not how many they promised to.

Well, none of the VOCs have come from the US thus far. — Isaac


I think that's just accidental. — frank

So you think abandoning less developed economies in a drive to get ever higher vaccination rates in the US is a good policy because you 'guess' the US might yield a new variant?

So you think abandoning less developed economies in a drive to get ever higher vaccination rates in the US is a good policy because you 'guess' the US might yield a new variant? — Isaac

Wait. Aren't you skeptical about the value of vaccines? If not, when did you change your mind? You sure as hell were a few months ago.

I just got the second vaccine of Moderna. I want to thank all the doctors and nurses who work hard when it is even summer time. They deserve holidays but here they are putting all the vaccines to the citizens.
Despite the fact Madrid changed the plan and now you can go at any hour of the day, I did not see a lot of people in queue as in June and July (probably due to holidays...). I wish, in September we can already get the 70 % (we are in 63 %) of the population vaccinated, but due to Delta variation we can't know what the future holds and it frustrates me a bit...
Stay safe, you and your family and friends :up: :flower:

Wait. Aren't you skeptical about the value of vaccines? If not, when did you change your mind? You sure as hell were a few months ago. — frank

Where did I say that? My last comment on the matter...

The Covid vaccination programme is unquestionably an excellent public health initiative, as most vaccination programmes are — Isaac

I don't see them as manna from heaven to be lapped up enthusiastically at every opportunity. That's hardly the same thing as the sort of skepticism we're talking about here. Vaccines undoubtedly save millions of lives and for the vulnerable, the risk/benefit analysis, in the case of this particular vaccine, seems indubitable.

The point is actually well made by your response. The problem is the polemicisation of the issue. Vaccines are neither useless nor panaceas. They're neither good for everyone, nor good for no-one. They're neither brilliant solution to all our problems, nor propagators of the next armageddon.

It baffles me why complexity must be purged from discourse all the time.

The problem is the polemicisation of the issue — Isaac

Well let's not do that then. It's not a Disney movie. It's more of an Ingmar Bergman film. Or maybe Nicholas Cage's version of Color Out of Space.

Well let's not do that then. It's not a Disney movie. — frank

Do you see much awareness of that here? Is there a narrative you can point to here that extends beyond our flawless pharmaceutical saviours delivering us from the twin evils of nature (the virus) and the immoral unenlightened (the anti-vaxxers)? Anything at all?

Yea, mine. I'm suspicious of the pharmaceutical industry. I understand concerns about taking the vaccine.

Yea, mine. I'm suspicious of the pharmaceutical industry. I understand concerns about taking the vaccine. — frank

Oh. Then I've misjudged you and I apologise.

So in your response to @Janus's concern about vaccine distribution, you seemed to be saying that there wasn't a problem because the US needs all those vaccines to tackle its own outbreak (for the good of everyone). Did I misjudge that too? Because if not, it does come across a little like post hoc rationalisation to support the narrative you've just said you're suspicious of... the vaccines just so happen to be needed most in the one country that can most afford to pay for them. Does that not strike you as even a little suspicious?

The Philosophy Of Covid-19

All here seem acquainted enough with viruses and how they work. Nothing more than the basics is required for what I have to say.

A book is, all said and done, a message and when the message is/feels good, we like to copy the message/book. In short, the message/book has to have some value in order that we might want to make copies of it.

Now, the Covid-19, like all other viruses, is a book that contains the message COPY ME! - that's all there is in the Covid-19 book. At first, we're deeply puzzled by this because there's nothing about the Covid-19 book that moves us, inspires us, to make copies of it. It just says, COPY ME!.

Here's where it gets interesting. Remember what I said in the 2nd paragraph about a book needing some value so that we feel like making copies of it. It turns out that whatever value we might think a book has ultimately boils down to how it ensures copying is enhanced/successful. Good books are copied but good books are good because they boost copying.

In other words, the Covid-19 virus is the last word on life - COPY ME!. That's life! The rest is all bullshit!