What do you think "he referred to"?

Nietzsche asks whether at the moment of death you would want to relive your life. If you would, then you succeeded in life

Did you, or are you reading Candide? If not, it's an easy read, and pretty short.

It begins with a young man, Candide, who is living a sheltered life in an Edenic paradise and being indoctrinated with Leibnizian optimism by his mentor, Professor Pangloss.[8] The work describes the abrupt cessation of this lifestyle, followed by Candide's slow and painful disillusionment as he witnesses and experiences great hardships in the world. Voltaire concludes Candide with, if not rejecting Leibnizian optimism outright, advocating a deeply practical precept, "we must cultivate our garden", in lieu of the Leibnizian mantra of Pangloss, "all is for the best" in the "best of all possible worlds". — Wikipedia

The horrors he lists, some of them absurd, all happened to characters in the story. Are you familiar with Leonard Bernstein's opera, "Candide"? It's a great show. Here's a sample... Here Pangloss (with his face disfigured from syphilis) explains why everything is for the best to Candide.

It begins with a young man, Candide, who is living a sheltered life in an Edenic paradise and being indoctrinated with Leibnizian optimism by his mentor, Professor Pangloss.[8] The work describes the abrupt cessation of this lifestyle, followed by Candide's slow and painful disillusionment as he witnesses and experiences great hardships in the world. Voltaire concludes Candide with, if not rejecting Leibnizian optimism outright, advocating a deeply practical precept, "we must cultivate our garden", in lieu of the Leibnizian mantra of Pangloss, "all is for the best" in the "best of all possible worlds".

I understand the concept but I don’t know what to call it. How can this ”will to rather face suffering than boredom” be defined so that one does not need examples to explain it?

Right now in my notes i just write ”Candide’s suffering”.

Yeah actually reading Candide will probably give me a better understanding. Good suggestion and thanks for the recommendation!

”I should like to know which is worse: to be ravished a hundred times by pirates, and have a buttock cut off, and run the gauntlet of the Bulgarians, and be flogged and hanged in an auto-da-fe, and be dissected, and to row in a galley -- in short, to undergo all the miseries we have each of us suffered -- or simply to sit here and do nothing? That is a hard question,' said Candide” — Pax

Good question. However, the choices don't make any sense. I didn't know Voltaire was logically that inept!

Le meglio è l'inimico del bene. — Voltaire

Hmmmmm...

It's humoristic. Evidently it's better to be slightly bored than to go through all these miseries.

Yes there is an element of sarcasm to it, but I believe there is another element as well. However I don’t know what to call this other concept. The concept of willingly choosing some suffering in contrast to the boredom of comfortability.

boredom — Pax

bored — Olivier5

What do you think "he referred to"? — tim wood

Definitely not boredom.

It makes some sense if one interpret it as gradual instead of absolute. The question that baffles me is: what can I call the concept of willingly choosing some degree of suffering (or uncomfortability). Because we are not satisfied by the boredom of absolute comfortability.

The question that baffles me is: what can I call the concept of willingly choosing some degree of suffering (or uncomfortability). Because we are not satisfied by the boredom of absolute comfortability. — Pax

This seems related :point: Embodiment Is Burdensome.

The concept that comes closest to what you're saying is: Necessary Evil.

The conversation now slowly drifts towards Gottfried Leibniz's notion of Best Of All Possible Worlds, the intended target of Voltaire's mockery.

It's been called risk-taking.

Definitely not boredom. — TheMadFool

What then?

Definitely not boredom.
— TheMadFool

What then? — Olivier5

One of the choices discussed is "...simply sit there and do nothing." This is not ennui. The other choice is clearly not something any person in faer right mind would be bored by.

Sitting there doing nothing does evoke boredom.

Sitting there doing nothing does evoke boredom. — Olivier5

You forgot the other half of the story.

However I don’t know what to call this other concept. The concept of willingly choosing some suffering in contrast to the boredom of comfortability.
10 hours ago — Pax

It's a kind of self-indulgence, of the kind engaged in by those with far too much time on their hands.

I did not.

Definitely interesting reads!

However, I do not refer to the duties or burdens forced upon us by living, metioned by Inyenzi. Rather the will to carry a burden even when one has the option to comfortably sit and do nothing. Other quotes that embody the same concept:

”Have I been made for this, to lie under the blankets and keep myself warm?” - Marcus Aurelius. A question that Aurelius strongly answered ”no” to.

”What makes you think that if you had everything you asked for, that would satisfy you? What if being dissatisfied is part of what satisfies you? What if the fact that you have to have limits and need them and that there’s an element of insanity in the world, and there’s an element of insecurity and vulnerability. What if that’s what you need? What if that’s what you want? What if that’s what gives your life meaning? You’re gonna be like a lion after its eaten a zebra and do nothing but sleep. That hardly constitutes the appropriate human paradise. What makes people think that merely to provide economic security would be sufficient? Who wants that? It’s what you offer a cow in its pen so that it remains calm and fat. It’s not something for human beings” - Jordan B. Peterson

Why? They are two different options, one is adventurous in contrast to the completely other choice that is boring.

I would say risk-taking concerns a lack of certainty. This however concerns the active choice of adversity.

Like why is the following quote by Gimli in the third Lord of the Rings movie exciting?: ” Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?”.

”I should like to know which is worse: to be ravished a hundred times by pirates, and have a buttock cut off, and run the gauntlet of the Bulgarians, and be flogged and hanged in an auto-da-fe, and be dissected, and to row in a galley -- in short, to undergo all the miseries we have each of us suffered -- or simply to sit here and do nothing? That is a hard question,' said Candide” — Voltaire

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone. — Pascal

First of all, my sincerest apologies. I got the wrong end of the stick.

The choices offered by Voltaire are:

1. Do something (endure some amount of suffering)

or

2. Do nothing

For Voltaire both are bad but he wants to know which of the two is worse?

The relevant concepts here are, as I pointed out, Lesser-Evilism and Necessary Evil. Voltaire finds himself between Scylla and Charybdis.

For my money, it boils down to some kind of calculus involving the degree of suffering involved. Reminds me of two aphorisms:

3. No pain, no gain [2 is worse]

and

4. The game is not worth the candle [1 is worse]

I suppose what all this means is we'll have to take a case-by-case approach to issues that boil down to a choice between 1 and 2.

@Wayfarer once, in another thread, commented "...least worst option..."

Taking risk can be seen as a basic human need. It gives you "the thrill". You feel more alive, you will remember vividly what happened, will be able to tell countless stories that other people will listen to... Why do you think people climb the Everest or K2?

. I got the wrong end of the stick. — TheMadFool

That may be because you are an adventurous philosopher, a risk taking metaphysician.... :-) Better get it wrong once in a while than say nothing, or something amounting to nought.

That may be because you are an adventurous philosopher, a risk taking metaphysician.... :-) Better get it wrong once in a while than say nothing, or something amounting to nought. — Olivier5

There are some things one is better off without. Anyway I'll take that as a compliment.

Regarding boredom, if every situation eventually becomes a choice between enduring suffering or doing nothing, it would be repetitive and thus, as you said, boring. Becoming world-weary, another name for boredom, is inevitable. I suppose being capable of boredom is some kinda secret weapon we can deploy against reality - been there, done that, what's new? :yawn: