science and religion

Science does not say that. Only scientific illiterates say science says that.

Btw, as someone trained in modern physics has repeatedly said:

"If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims." — Tenzin Gyatso, The 14th Dalai Lama

The fact that you and I require an actual God to show up and say, 'Here I am kids ... — Tom Storm

How about an actual God who doesn't show up but through a ventriloquist says "Here's my kid" and "I am him or he is I and together we are three" ?

:halo:

Science does not say that. Only scientific illiterates say science says that. — 180 Proof

it does say that, it just tries to hide it

it does say that, it just tries to hide it — MikeListeral

I see this distrust in science. People that don't really know God by experience seem to need their storybook to be true; which means they have to attack science.

it does say that, it just tries to hide it — MikeListeral

???

Science can be used to predict as much as it can be used to explain. Religion can only try to explain, it has zero predictive abilities, and in fact only explains anything by appeal to mystery.

Religion can only try to explain, it has zero predictive abilities, and in fact only explains anything by appeal to mystery. — darthbarracuda

Tbf that's true of philosophy :joke: It's all just-so stories; science has the appeal of telling stories about future events in a disprovable way (contrasting with endlessly delayed Armageddons).

Well, I think the point I was trying to make is that religion is simply a bad way to go about investigating empirical phenomena.

If there is any reconciliation to be done between science and religion, it is not by showing that their claims are identical, but that their claims are completely unrelated to each other and belong to separate domains. Religion is not science, science is not religion, and whenever one of them tries to be the other it ends up being really stupid.

Science can be used to predict as much as it can be used to explain. Religion can only try to explain, it has zero predictive abilities, and in fact only explains anything by appeal to mystery. — darthbarracuda

which means they have to attack science. — Cheshire

.

the bedrock of science is still magic just like religion

tf is this? iFunny?

tf is this? iFunny? — darthbarracuda

ya science and religion are quite funny

both are based in magic

ok bud :kiss:

If there is any reconciliation to be done between science and religion, it is not by showing that their claims are identical, but that their claims are completely unrelated to each other and belong to separate domains. Religion is not science, science is not religion, and whenever one of them tries to be the other it ends up being really stupid. — darthbarracuda

Gould's 'non-overlapping magisteria' idea, a sort of epistemological separation of church and state. I think this is what theists try to do -- God-of-the-gaps -- but the progression of science tends rob their magisteria somewhat.

:joke: :smile:

ok bud — darthbarracuda

humans beings prefer fantasy to reality

which is why we like science and religion.

because we are all insane

What do you count as reality?

What do you count as reality? — Tom Storm

the direct experience of consciousness (sensory and mental) as it is right here right now is the closest thing we have to an actual reality.

what else is there? some idea about a reality beyond consciousness? that is just an idea that happens IN consciousness here now.

wouldn't it be more parsimonious to assume just that our cognitive abilities are reliable? — SophistiCat

Exactly.

The challenge is to explain in a non theist manner the emergence of logical thoughts that actually help describe this universe correctly.

Are you trying to prove the point I was making? Science is only a threat if a belief in God rests on children's stories being true. Why the need for false equivalence? Do you just like irritating atheist? It seems childish if there's no greater point to be made. What is being demonstrated?

What is being demonstrated? — Cheshire

that science and religion are both based in invisible things and magical thinking

Yeah, I see what you're saying about god-of-the-gaps, and I think that is often what happens. Though I would say that that is because religion has been misconstrued into making claims that conceivably can be investigated by science, like the origins of life and the ultimate fate of the universe.

I think there are claims though that, right or wrong, cannot be determined by science, not because we do not possess the instruments or resources to do so (as would be the case for a flying spaghetti monster), but because in principle they cannot be investigated this way. It is in the nature of these claims to be unfalsifiable.

that science and religion are both based in invisible things and magical thinking — MikeListeral

I understand that much, but why does this idea please you?

why does this idea please you? — Cheshire

because im a philosopher

i go beyond science and religion

i go beyond everything and everyone

and i deliver the higher answers down to the simple people. haha

I think this is what theists try to do -- God-of-the-gaps -- but the progression of science tends rob their magisteria somewhat. — Kenosha Kid

Ah... but they still have the 'hard problem of consciousness' and quantum mystery gaps to keep them engaged for some time.

Copy Cat

It's ok though...

i go beyond science and religion — MikeListeral

It's more adjacent than beyond.

i go beyond everything and everyone — MikeListeral

Well you might want to reel it in a little, because your position is making a pretty magnificent error.

i deliver the higher answers down to the simple people. — MikeListeral

Whatever gets you through the day I suppose. But, the problem is assuming that by showing science and religion are flawed you some how prove something else isn't. Three people can be just as wrong as two.

by showing science is based in magic we eliminate scientism and materialism

Copy Cat

It's ok though... — skyblack

good then go educate yourself on hard problem of consciousness

Yes, you seem to be doing a great job educating yourself. Glad to be of help.