I think this is one of those cases where if we all do what we want then the collective outcome is worse. Like, that beautiful mind movie. So, on the individual level for everyone hesitancy is rational. Personally, I see it through social contract theory; where if you choose to live in society you ought do what keeps the society alive. The last person to get vaccinated probably won't need it, but we don't know who that is so the only successful approach is over-vaccinating the required number of people. I think we have the right to make selfish decisions and be held accountable for them, so in some sense I agree. — Cheshire
However, as there are no long term effects known, ten years later it turns out that the Mrna technology resulted in a genetic mutation which results in a pronounced decline in fertility, not in us that were vaccinated, but in our children. The already decreasing birthrate decreases to the point that without some form of drastic technological intervention the species will be functionally extinct within 100 years. — Book273
So...big brother knows best eh. Scary stuff. — Book273
Applicable to you my friend. — Book273
And yet...you are still posting. Most of your rant is fully applicable to you as well eh. Or is that another irrelevant detail that you will overlook in defense of your position? — Book273
It is refreshing to hear someone actually come out and just say that people should not make their own decisions and just follow the leader, because the leader knows best. Appallingly ignorant and short sighted, but refreshing none-the-less. — Book273
There would be no United States if people had listened to what you are pushing. No one can rebel in your philosophy of obedience. How dreary. — Book273
I am not anti-vax — Book273
Oh, another unrelated comparison. — Christoffer
People need to understand their place — Christoffer
They should sit down and shut the fuck up and let the ones who are actual experts run the show — Christoffer
It's not about "Big Brother — Christoffer
how do you know the world "would have been fine" — Christoffer
sit down and shut the fuck up and let the ones who are actual experts run the show. — Christoffer
There it is. Never gets old eh, back to the old "irrelevant" position. So your position is that it's ok to rebel, maybe, but not now, and not against this, because....it weakens your position? — Book273
Contradicting yourself their eh. Just saying, pick a direction and stick with it. Either we don't understand our place and should "shut the fuck up" and let someone else take over, (big brother) OR it's not about big brother, which invalidates the first bit. — Book273
Also; just because you put in parenthesis doesn't make it a quote. I have not used the phrase "would have been fine." — Book273
Really hard to prove how bad things "would have been". Everything runs on modeling and assumptions. — Book273
Ghandi rebelled eh. Peacefully, and effectively, but he still disagreed with the powers that were and changed his world. — Book273
Mother Theresa worked around the restrictions placed upon her, effectively rebelling against those who would stop her from doing what she thought was right. — Book273
You are doing what you think is right. As am I. We will both be ignored by history, and yet, one of our positions will be more accurate than the other, such is the way of things. We are rebelling. Good for us. — Book273
Seems like a bankrupt plan. — Book273
I keep asking for it, — Christoffer
your logic was assuming things would have been fine — Christoffer
yep. And then say irrelevant, or anecdotal. Either way, whatever you dislike, you dismiss. — Book273
Nope, not ever. You are projecting again. I think the pandemic response will result in more damage than the pandemic would have if there had been no response at all. — Book273
Check the WHO site for anticipated deaths due to starvation, lack of TB diagnosis and treatment, etc. as a result of all the border closures and crap resulting from the pandemic response. Last I checked the numbers were about 50,000,000. — Book273
Where I work we are seeing adverse reactions to vaccine at 1:5. Not monster life ending stuff, but still, 1:5. Hard to support that. But hey, it's anecdotal right? So ignore it and carry on. — Book273
The OP asked for reasons regarding Vaccine yes or no. I am saying no. Do what you like based on the data. — Book273
Unless you are frontline, your data is filtered. I am taking the data I see, anecdotal as it is, and working from that. And No is what I come up with. — Book273
And No is what I come up with. — Book273
Hence the reason hesitancy is rational on an individual level. But, taking the individual risk or perceived risk was what I thought I owed the people I live around. We know the long term effects of not vaccinating and that is mutating an already easily spread virus; that seems to wipe out the elderly fairly well.We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine, this virus, or the technology of the vaccine. It's all pretty new stuff, perhaps mild caution is in order. — Book273
The difference here is that I acknowledge the experts around me and refer to them to conclude what they are actually knowledgeable about. If I make arguments that refer to source material that they produced, then I'm taking the epistemically responsible path of arguing logic out of that knowledge. The difference between me and you is that you just have opinions, you think you know best, but have little to no foundation for that logic. The same goes for every other person who does the same. Armchair experts are called that based on them thinking they know best. The reasonable thinker, however, never position themselves to know past their own knowledge and instead include the consensus of experts into the arguments. So you are comparing apples to oranges while you don't understand the difference. — Christoffer
Is that what the reasonable thinker does? I am no expert in anything but from what I've seen, its the brainless thinkers that tend to buy into experts' so called expertise. — Merkwurdichliebe
I have also seen many examples of experts getting it wrong and leading the brainless followers into shitty situations, which should make anyone with two shits for brains skeptical about anything any expert might claim. — Merkwurdichliebe
Of course, I didn't get my opinion from an expert, so you will probably reject what I'm saying here. — Merkwurdichliebe
That doesn't matter now, does it? If you get side effects because of that super unlucky lottery, then that is not any empirical evidence that the vaccine is worse than covid. Is this how you treat logic? That if something happens to you, then the statistics are wrong? Seriously? — Christoffer
Are you willing to die for others?
— baker
Yes. And you make me laugh. — Tom Storm
Are you willing to die for others?
— baker
I am. It's an old school thing. — James Riley
dying from complications of the vaccine are 112 times more likely than dying from covid itself — Thinking
Are you a zombie or something??! is there nobody home there??
I'm not saying that if something happens to me, then the statistics are wrong. Oh god. I'm talking about the way a person handles or is supposed to handle the possibility of experiencing negative side effects of medical treatments. — baker
So, have you wirtten your last will and testament and had it properly legalized? Have you gotten all your affairs in order and cleaned out your house? — baker
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.