If the Belgians started launching missiles at the Netherlands & killing the Dutch are you not allowed to respond? It's a question of how one responds, not whether response is permissible (which it obviously is.) — BitconnectCarlos
As an analogy, if I kill your daughter or attempt to, you get to kill me without any problem. What you're not allowed is bomb my family and neighbours. — Benkei
Hamas asked for '67 borders + right of return. '67 borders by themselves are a reasonable request, but any mention of right of return is not. RoR = end of Israel plus a logistical nightmare.
The majority of Palestinians are not simply satisfied with '67 borders if there's no RoR. — BitconnectCarlos
As an analogy, if I kill your daughter or attempt to, you get to kill me without any problem. What you're not allowed is bomb my family and neighbours. — Benkei
Also, you do realise the right of return is a human right? So you want to deny Palestinians human rights because it would be a logistical nightmare? I really don't give a shit that the consequences of crimes are inconvenient to the perpetrator. — Benkei
What sort of discrimination and who is it coming from? — BitconnectCarlos
The definition of the State of Israel as a Jewish state, as enshrined in law, allows inequalities to persist and enables state-sanctioned discrimination against Palestinian citizens of Israel. Increasingly, since the election of the right-wing Netanyahu-led government in 2009, coalition members have also introduced a raft of discriminatory legislation. Much of this legislation focuses on “loyalty oaths” to Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state; the criminalization of speech that challenges the Jewish and/or Zionist nature of the state; the imposition of more restrictions on political participation and even citizenship rights for “breach of loyalty” to the state. Over the last three years, several new laws have been enacted that discriminate against Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel, including legislation in the field of economic, social and cultural rights:
• The Israel Land Administration Law (2009): This law institutes broad land privatization (much of the land owned by the Palestinian refugees and internally displaced persons would be subject to privatization under the law.
• Amendment (2010) to The Land (Acquisition for Public Purposes) Ordinance (1943): This Mandate-era law authorizes the Finance Minster to confiscate land for “public purposes”. The amendment confirms state ownership of a massive amount of Palestinian land confiscated under this law, even where it has not been used to serve the original purpose of its confiscation.
• Absorption of Discharged Soldiers Law (1994) Amendment No. 7: Benefits for Discharged Soldiers (2008): Allows the use of military/national service as a criterion for the allocation of benefits in higher education. The vast majority of Palestinian citizens of Israel are exempted from military service and do not serve in the Israeli army for political and historical reasons.
• The Economic Efficiency Law (Legislative Amendments for Implementing the Economic Plan for 2009-2010) (2009).
a. A section of this law concerns “National Priority Areas” (NPAs). It grants the government sweeping discretion to classify towns, villages and areas as NPAs and to allocate enormous state resources without criteria, in contradiction to the Israeli Supreme Court’s 2006 decision in HCJ 2773/98 and HCJ 11163/03, The High Follow-Up Committee for Arab Citizens in Israel v. Prime Minister of Israel.
b. A further section of this law concerns the distribution of “child allowances.” Under the new law, children who do not receive the vaccinations mandated by the Health Ministry will no longer be provided with financial support. This provision mainly affects Arab Bedouin children living in the Naqab (Negev).
According to a 2001 report by Human Rights Watch, Israel's school systems for Arab and Jewish children are separate and have unequal conditions to the disadvantage of the Arab children who make up one quarter of all students. - Government-run Arab schools are a world apart from government-run Jewish schools. In virtually every respect, Palestinian Arab children get an education inferior to that of Jewish children, and their relatively poor performance in school reflects this.
While Israel has several political parties that have historically represented Arab citizens’ interests, none have ever been asked to join a governing coalition.
ACRI poll: "Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together ... The report becomes even grimmer, citing the ACRI's racism poll, taken in March 2007, in which 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes."
Various polls, including the Israel Democracy Institute's poll, revealed that 62 percent of the Jewish public expects the State to take action to encourage Arab migration from Israel, at the same time, over 90 percent expect the State to encourage Jewish immigration.
Well what grounds the justification for other types of states, e.g. non-religious ones? I guess I would say, ultimately, security.
In the case of Israel I've always felt the real reason for the state was security - to protect the Jewish people against various enemies. The religious claim may or may not be true, who knows. Others will have their religious claims too. — BitconnectCarlos
What I was trying to demonstrate with my example was that you can't really draw a proper cut off year for when a claim stops being valid. — BitconnectCarlos
Hmm. It seems to me that proprietorship over land is acquired through conquest. It only becomes stolen when the divested acquire - steal - it back.which already includes plenty of land stolen through conquest. — Benkei
Ever heard the term “Sheikh Jarrah?” That’s the name of the neighborhood at the center of the recent Israel-Palestine flare up. It is a neighborhood in East Jerusalem inhabited by mostly Palestinians who became refugees when they were expelled from a West Jerusalem neighborhood (Talbiya) after Israel captured West Jerusalem following the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Conversely, Jewish families were also expelled from their homes in Sheikh Jarrah and resettled in West Jerusalem neighborhood of Talbiya. Most Palestinian families in Sheikh Jarrah have lived there since the 1948 war (nearly 70 years), and likewise for Jewish families in Talbiya.
After the 1967 6-day war, Israel expanded their occupation to East Jerusalem. Following the occupation of East Jerusalem, court battles have ensued over the Sheikh Jarrah properties, by groups of Jewish people claiming to have owned the property before 1948. Using right of return laws, attempts are being made to expel the current Palestinian residents and replace them with Jewish residents. The problem is, the same right of return is not being extended to these Palestinian families regarding the homes they were evicted from in West Jerusalem in 1948. In fact, right of return laws *only* apply to Jewish people in Israel, so Palestinians who have been expelled and displaced for various reasons over the years have no right to reclaim their previously owned property.
Courts have thus far ruled in favor of the Jewish families claim to the land in Sheikh Jarrah, ordering that they are allowed to charge rent to the current Palestinian families living there. Obviously, the Palestinian families do not believe they should have to pay said rent and have tried to fight it. They're losing that fight, and barring the Israeli Supreme Court stepping in, it's likely that many Palestinian families will be expelled from their homes by the Israeli government in the near future.
Ever wondered why the conflict flared up recently? It wasn't random acts of terrorism, rather, it was in response to these court battles. It was in response to demonstrable ethnic oppression.
This is one example among many of why it is being argued that Israel is an apartheid state. Obviously, it was wrong for both Jews and Palestinians to be expelled from their homes in West and East Jerusalem, respectively, in 1948. But both groups were compensated with comparable homes in their respective new areas in Jerusalem. Fast forward to today, and Jewish families are using ethnically discriminatory right of return laws to expel Palestinians from their homes. And what’s worse, this is taking place in East Jerusalem, an area where Jewish right of return should not apply and Israeli courts should have no jurisdiction anyway!
Folks call this a “dispute” and say it’s complex, but, imo, that’s far too charitable. This is a land grab. It’s part of the ongoing settlement expansion that enflames tensions in the region. If you’ve managed to make it this far, thanks for reading. This is why I'm so outspoken about how this conflict is far different than the caricatures you’ll find among many biased, ignorant Israel supporters. A fair and objective look at this circumstance shows this is yet another case of war crimes, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing by the Israeli government. — JW
Not that any of this will happen under Biden, who is and has been as Israeli bootlicker from day 1. — StreetlightX
He's been surprising on several fronts — Benkei
This is how apartheid begins to end. — StreetlightX
Most people buy their land... — Tobias
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.