No.

And I guess your friend hasn't studied economics.

I don't know what he has studied, but I definitely have heard news stories that our shores have lots of stuff piled up in shipping containers that hasn't gone anywhere. Isn't it conceivable that the government wanted a cool down even before the pandemic?

Not really. Every time the economy slowed down the US went to war; pretty much since FDR was in power. It has been the only thing that pulls up the economy. Makes me wonder how bad the next war will be to pull everyone out of the pandemic response.

Every time the economy slowed down the US went to war; — Book273

A century ago, William James described the need for an occasional external (or internal) motivating threat to the Body Politic as the "moral equivalent of war", for reviving the spirit of national unity, and the discipline to weather the disrupting storms. Later, Jimmy Carter gave that same label to the impending climate & energy crisis. Perhaps the current Pandemic has served a similar purpose, by challenging our national political unity, and our communal resolve to repel the threat. Unfortunately, the economy seems to have come through the crisis in better shape than the union. :worry:

Moral Equivalent of War : "James considered one of the classic problems of politics: how to sustain political unity and civic virtue in the absence of war or a credible threat"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Equivalent_of_War_speech

Gnomon!

Great point! William James (aside from being one of my favorite psychologist-turned-philosopher's) was also a self proclaimed pacifist. In your view, how did he reconcile his pacifism with the so-called human need to fight wars?

To remain on point though, those who might be advocating for some sort of calamity here (perhaps it's a far-right ideology in this case) how do they reconcile that with the lives lost/COVID pandemic? Certainly, the last far-right winger to hold office (Trump) being truly derelict in his duty of public safety, by downplaying the pandemic and covering-up the medical science associated with same, ( recommending/suggesting the ingesting of bleach, not wearing masks, downplaying its impacts/being over as soon as it gets warm, ad nauseum), was there any sense of "communal resolve" and "political unity" in lying to the American tax payer about this?

Perhaps James was right, concerning the human condition, Trump was only perpetrating yet another unfounded belief (system) that apparently spoke to a broader human deficiency or pathology...in his case, a mind game that costed many lives. I think it's called gaslighting the public.

Thank God we fired him!

Certainly, the last far-right winger to hold office (Trump) being truly derelict in his duty of public safety, by downplaying the pandemic and covering-up the medical science associated with same, ( recommending/suggesting the ingesting of bleach, not wearing masks, downplaying its impacts/being over as soon as it gets warm, ad nauseum), was there any sense of "communal resolve" and "political unity" in lying to the American tax payer about this? — 3017amen

True. At least Trump didn't go to war.

What he did was to send some cruise missiles to Syria and killed an Iranian general, to which Iran responded by firing missiles at US bases... and Trump didn't retaliate about that. And was keen to withdraw troops. Which btw. Biden has rejected to withdraw now.

I don't know what he has studied, but I definitely have heard news stories that our shores have lots of stuff piled up in shipping containers that hasn't gone anywhere. — TiredThinker

Those are container ships loader with Chinese imports that have been sitting of the coast of LA/Long Beach.

I did hear that there was a rowboat that had a box of Slim Jim's headed for Asia that had taken on some water somewhere in Disneyland, though.

A friend of mine told me the pandemic has actually helped the U.S. economy in the sense that for a number of years we have created more products faster than we can export them and the accumulation has become an issue. Is this cool down a benefit until we can catch up and clear some space? — TiredThinker

Sure, what's a few excess third-world deaths as long as smug liberals can bash capitalism.

Great point! William James (aside from being one of my favorite psychologist-turned-philosopher's) was also a self proclaimed pacifist. In your view, how did he reconcile his pacifism with the so-called human need to fight wars? — 3017amen

James was both a Pacifist and a Pragmatist. Which means that, if we can't change the warlike nature of humanity, we must learn to live with it. Perhaps by channeling our aggressive instincts into less destructive activities -- such as win-win businesses. Ironically, Steven Pinker attributes our "long peace" (since WWII) to global trade -- due in part to the inherent morality of Capitalism. It's only when win-lose capitalists (I won't mention a recent example) fail to respect their trading partners, that war becomes a plausible option. :cool:

William James on Peace & War :
One hundred years ago the philosopher and psychologist William James set down his thoughts on war and peace in an essay for McClure’s magazine titled “The Moral Equivalent of War.” In that essay he examined the role of the martial virtues in keeping a society vigorous and proud and explained why pacifism, in the merely negative sense of opposition to war, could not succeed.
http://blogs.britannica.com/2010/03/william-james-on-peace-and-war/

Pinker explains ‘The Long Peace’ :
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/03/pinker-explains-the-long-peace/

Steven Pinker explains how capitalism is killing war :
https://www.vox.com/2015/6/4/8725775/pinker-capitalism

Capitalism and Morality : First, capitalism is moral because — unlike socialism — it respects individuals, their rights, and their pursuit of happiness. In fact, capitalism requires this respect for individuals and rights. This is why capitalism often is defined as a social system, not an economic system, which protects individual rights.
https://www.johnlocke.org/update/capitalism-and-morality/

True. At least Trump didn't go to war. — ssu

SSU!

Thanks ssu. I don't want to stray too far off-topic, so I'll just add an ancillary note only to say that just like hiring and firing employees, most President's do good and bad. Meaning the one's that do more good than bad generally get re-elected and stay with the company, and the one's who do more bad than good generally don't. One of the great things about freedom/democracy for sure... . Being an independent moderate myself, I did what many did in 2016; it was a protest vote for the lesser evil.

One obvious takeaway was the lessons in extremism (both sides). With few exceptions, we need more moderate's in both our political and religious institutions. I think Aristotle was right :grin:

As far as this topic goes, I'm interested in how the human condition creates, perpetuates, and specifically, politically motivates human beings to do evil things. For a lack of a better term, should we accept extremism in all its forms, and at what cost do we waste human lives? And so generally, if we use the logic and say it is acceptable to shoot down the plane with 100 to save 5,000, I get that. But vis a vis COVID, I'm not sure that's what we're talking about here... .

One obvious takeaway was the lessons in extremism (both sides). With few exceptions, we need more moderate's in both our political and religious institutions. I think Aristotle was right — 3017amen

Yes. That's why I am a Militant Moderate.

Ironically, immoderate Trump faced-down "little rocket man", and didn't get into a shooting war with North Korea. That may be because Kim Jong Un was afraid that he was just crazy enough to push the red button. :joke:

Perhaps James was right, concerning the human condition, — 3017amen

I just noticed that, in The Moral Equivalent of War speech, William James came to the same conclusion, to explain why major wars are becoming fewer & farther between, that Steven Pinker discovered in his historical research, a century later. Human nature hasn't changed so much, but human culture has made war & conquest a less attractive way to obtain resources, than peaceful trade. :smile:

"Modern war is so expensive that we feel trade to be a better avenue to plunder;"
___W. James, 1906
http://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/moral.html

"so the arrival of the infrastructure of trade and commerce reduces some of the sheer exploitative incentives of conquest."
___S. Pinker, 2012
https://www.vox.com/2015/6/4/8725775/pinker-capitalism

Human nature hasn't changed so much, but human culture has made war & conquest a less attractive way to obtain resources, than peaceful trade. :smile: — Gnomon

Agreed! And thank for the links...very germane to the OP I must say....I'll have a look-see and get back to you, thank you!

That's why I am a Militant Moderate. — Gnomon

In layman's terms, are you saying you're an extremist? I know it's off topic (you know, the war thing and all) but if one were to suggest wars are good for the economy, it probably wouldn't square with your other philosophies… (?)

Food for thought: should the Monk be involved in Politics?

In layman's terms, are you saying you're an extremist? — 3017amen

"Militant Moderate". Perhaps I should have used a smilie icon after that remark, to indicate that I was kidding. :joke:

Another way to put is that, philosophically, I'm an "extreme anti-extremist". Or maybe, I'm "militantly against militancy". As bruised & battered Rodney King plaintively pleaded : "why can't we all just get along".

Actually, I am mostly apathetic about polarized politics. That's because, in most cases, "I don't have a horse in that race". So, I don't have emotional attachments to the "things of this world". Ironically, my fundamentalist religious upbringing inadvertently gave me one philosophical meme useful for dealing with the chaos of the crazy world : "I am in the world, but not of the world". The image that suggests to me is of "hovering above the fray".

My position on most topics is vaguely somewhere in the middle of the range. I am OK with some Conservative positions and with some Liberal positions, but not with their polarized extreme end-states. Unfortunately, when the shooting starts, I get caught in the crossfire. :cool:

It's a long hard climb to get above the frayed fabric of human relations :

Militant Moderate". Perhaps I should have used a smilie icon after that remark, to indicate that I was kidding. :joke: — Gnomon

Sorry Gnomon, I should know better. (I've been away for awhile, just trying to get my chops back... .)

As bruised & battered Rodney King plaintively pleaded : "why can't we all just get along". — Gnomon

Yep, me too.

Actually, I am mostly apathetic about polarized politics. That's because, in most cases, "I don't have a horse in that race". So, I don't have emotional attachments to the "things of this world". Ironically, my fundamentalist religious upbringing inadvertently gave me one philosophical meme useful for dealing with the chaos of the crazy world : "I am in the world, but not of the world". The image that suggests to me is of "hovering above the fray". — Gnomon

Love it! What a great reminder, and inspiration. Perspective! Thank you, well said.

My position on most topics is vaguely somewhere in the middle of the range. I am OK with some Conservative positions and with some Liberal positions, but not with their polarized extreme end-states. Unfortunately, when the shooting starts, I get caught in the crossfire. :cool: — Gnomon

I'm definitely digging what you're laying down my brother! Wow, missed you man!