Well said sir.

To be philosophical about mass shootings, I'd say there's an underlying pernicious fallacy at work in "the mind of a killer". If what I've read about the psychology of mass murderers of the kind that's become an American phenomenon, they, the perps, usually bear a grudge borne of slights, mistreatment, ostracization, shaming, etc. Of course I maybe reading too much into the reports but suffice it to say that mass shooters have a, to put it mildly, a bone to pick with...and here's where it gets interesting.

Mass shooters, if what I said about them is true, must've experienced a lot of negativity from people but these people, for certain, must be identifiable individuals in the social lives or what passes for of mass shooters. Yet, puzzlingly, they choose to lash out, shoot and kill, completely random people some of whom might have even been willing to come to the mass shooter's aid.

What I'm trying to get at is the assumptions that go into the inference from I hate what V, W, and, X did to me, now I'll go and murder Y and a whole bunch of random people. Somewhere inside the mind of a mass shooter X = Y and a whole bunch of random people. For my money, in a mass shooter's eyes, his misery is the handiwork of society and not of individuals and thus when ge contemplates revenge, his target is society and the deaths of totally random people will satisfy faer. Perhaps mass shooters of the specific kind I'm referring to are of the view that everybody needs to care what everybody does and if a handful of individuals fail to behave well towards the mass shooter, they are guilty, no doubt, but the rest are seen as accomplices, complicit in the suffering of the mass shooter and therefore as valid targets of their vengeance and no matter how warped and repulsive this logic may appear to be, I'm going to stick my neck out and say, "there might be a grain of truth in it". If anything then, mass shootings, despite the immediate response of condemning the mass shooter as diabolically evil, it also has, even if buried under a pile of lifeless bodies, the feel of a desperate, last-minute cry for help, sympathy, and compassion.

Masculine identity is probably the key to the rise in assault weapon ownership and mass shootings.

I think researchers are sleeping on the plunge in young males' sexual activity in recent years, and the effects of the dynamics of internet dating. Inability to find mates is identified as a major factor in the radicalization of Islamist terrorists. Far-Right sites are awash in references to their poor prospects and the fear of "cuckolding," whilst "incel" is a common insult. — Count Timothy von Icarus

So the totemic regard for assault weapons, and even their use, is associated with the sexual fears/disappointments of unfortunate males? Well, I only own shotguns, and so am pleased I must then be less unfortunate.

Well, I only own shotguns — Ciceronianus the White

Give 'em both barrels!

I think the unfortunate truth is that mass-shootings have become a meme. They’re a behavioural template for disordered minds. Right now there are any number of people, usually men, thinking about it, or with a propensity to. It’s become normalised in American culture and I can’t see any way that it’s going to be stopped.

nevermind

Something I have noticed about these mass shootings is that they seem to be planned well in advance. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

That is an interesting observation. You're right. It's definitely looks like a slow boil. I think there should be laws that forbid the sale of a gun until the buyer answers at least one question in writing: "Do you want to engage in a mass shooting of unarmed people?" I know that anyone in their right mind would simply answer "No." But if you're crazy enough to say yes to that question, you shouldn't be allowed to buy the gun. Right now we don't even ask that obvious question. We can debate if their should be other questions to ask someone before they buy a gun, but we should consider asking this obvious one.

sycophant. At least contribute with your opinion or a related comment.

If we're talking purely about school shooters, as someone who is finishing college, I can see a few points worth empathizing. My experiences are from California schools,

Firstly, school is an absolutely terrible experience. Unrelated to the pandemic, student suicide rates weren't anything to laugh about, although it seems worse now. It's a world where you're being convinced 5 days a week since you're 3-5 years old that your worth is determined by the letter score on every assignment. Schools have also been laxing their standards to give an A for decades, so currently many people see Bs or less to be for failures. In other words, you can't fuck up. You have to be perfect or you're worthless.

Perhaps as an extension of that, there's a dubious idea shoved into your throat that going to a highly ranked school and getting a job is the only worthwhile life direction you can take. As a result you have competitive students with extremely fragile senses of self-worth that hangs by their gpas, and struggling students that're reminded of their worthless for years on end.

Not to mention somewhere along the way as classes get more specialized, there's a realization that a great deal of material that you're being forced to learn for 6 hours of the day is practically useless.

I was more of the competitive kind of student and the only thing that I felt that kept me sane were the friends I could complain to between classes. Take that away and all that would remain would be the desire to end it all. Then change perspectives to someone who never had the friends to tie them back down to reality and are reminded of their worthlessness on a constant basis.

I would want a big power trip before logging out.

I think the unfortunate truth is that mass-shootings have become a meme. They’re a behavioural template for disordered minds. Right now there are any number of people, usually men, thinking about it, or with a propensity to. It’s become normalised in American culture and I can’t see any way that it’s going to be stopped. — Wayfarer

"Behavoiral template" :up: Copy cat murders!

I was just wondering as to how a mass shooter gains satisfaction from killing random people.

There are two points to consider:

1. One is the rather specific act of settling a score with someone who wrongs you. This needn't be further clarified as it's commonplace enough.

2. Then there's the obviously non-specific or general acts of getting even but the targets are completely random folks. This is what all mass shootings are.

1 above is not so much an issue. X hurt me, I want to hurt X back. Case closed.

2, on the other hand, is fallacious. X hurt me, I want to hurt Y. Something doesn't add up unless...mass shootings are a domino effect kinda phenomenon.

I wonder if there's any point in trying to find a rationale for irrational behaviour. End of the day, there’s just too many guns, a cultural fascination with violence, and a significant minority of deranged individuals, the upshot being, this is likely going to keep happening for the foreseeable future. It’s one of the areas where American society has a screw loose.

I think you are oversimplifying things. Mass murderers aren’t necessarily out for revenge, so to speak. There are other possible motivating factors involved. The hope of fame seems to be a rather obvious one, but also simply living a miserable life and twisting that into envy. So you get it in your mind that others should pay. You know the saying “misery loves company.”

a kit to turn a gun into an automatic can be legally bought at exactly the same time as the gun. — charleton

Bump stocks were just ruled "not machine guns" by the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. Does this change your statement? I'm not familiar with exactly what you're talking about so I assume you meant bump stocks but if not I'd be glad to be educated.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/us-appeals-court-rules-bump-stocks-are-not-machine-guns

Bloomie link in case you don't like ZH.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/federal-bump-stock-ban-blocked-by-divided-appeals-court

I would want a big power trip before logging out. — FlaccidDoor

:up:

It makes sense to me to that this is what shooters are doing, going on a power trip, playing God, and (often) escaping into the grave from any consequences.

I also liked your description of the stresses of school, etc.

End of the day, there’s just too many guns — Wayfarer

If a mass shooting were to happen, how would it stop without another person without a gun? The US is in a peculiar place that differs from places like Japan because they have Mexico and Canada as a place where, even if all guns were banned, would still flow in. Once banned the only people who would have guns would be people who don't follow the law, the ban. Not to mention it's fairly easy to make if it's a bootleg one.

Even if we can magically make all guns on the land disappear and have them never made again, it wouldn't solve the root of the cause: the desire to cause a mass shooting.

My point being, I don't understand the notion that the solution to the problem is as simple as, "just ban it"

I read a story a couple of years back about what a correspondent in Japan had to go through to get a gun. Very difficult, many meetings and much documentation.

Japan has very few gun deaths. To me, that doesn’t pose a conceptual problem. Less guns, harder to get guns, less gun deaths. Of course in the USA it’s a lost argument, there’s almost as many guns as people. (Or is it more?) In any case, if you say ‘gun ownership is not the problem’ then at that precise moment, I change channels.

Yes you can lower gun deaths if you can get rid of guns, but that in itself is very hard to make happen here, in the US. But then the real problem is that we have something in our culture, our way of living that causes people to take guns and kill as many people as they can with it That desire doesn't go away if guns are gone and just gets replaced with, "take a knife and kill as many people as they can."

Japan is an interesting exception in most regards, but I suspect that its low homicide rates translates directly to it's high suicide rates. In other words, people in Japan may be killing themselves before they can kill others, which in some respect is much more morbid than mass shootings considering their innocence.

I think one positive thing is that it seems the media finally has understood not to focus on the shooter itself and especially not to publish any "declarations" a mass murderer would make. Similar thing ought to be done with terrorists, as especially with classical terrorism the primary goal is to get publicity. I think this is partly true with these suicides with mass shooting.

In western societies, there exists a subgroup of men who are, at least in 'popular culture', considered inferior or even worthless (implicitly, but also explicitly), due to their inability to attain the masculine ideal that is forwarded by that same culture of sex/wealth/success/dominance, etc.

That alone is extremely damaging, and it is further exacerbated by the fact that their grievances are generally met with ostracization and more humilation.

Are people really still scratching their heads at this? It is pretty obvious where the deadly cocktail of suicidality and a grudge against society comes from.

I think you are oversimplifying things. Mass murderers aren’t necessarily out for revenge, so to speak. There are other possible motivating factors involved. The hope of fame seems to be a rather obvious one, but also simply living a miserable life and twisting that into envy. So you get it in your mind that others should pay. You know the saying “misery loves company.” — Pinprick

I did mention, hinted perhaps, that my analysis was not meant to cover all the cases, only a small fraction of mass shooters may fit my description.

I wonder if there's any point in trying to find a rationale for irrational behaviour. — Wayfarer

:up: :clap: Deep!!!

A government which does not trust its citizens to be armed is itself not to be trusted — Niccolò Machiavelli