It is what it is and you make the best of it. There is no other economic system (unless you have come up with another one).

In all human (social) endeavor, you do what you can to keep the corruption to a minimum. This will allow for the best outcomes.

Yes, it's called political corruption and it is non-discriminatory.

What system would you rather live under, corrupted capitalism, corrupted Communism (ala the USSR) or corrupted Socialism (ala Venezuela)?

It is what it is and you make the best of it. There is no other economic system (unless you have come up with another one). — synthesis

The system you are scorning IS that system. If, as you suggest, all government intervention and support was withdrawn, the ultra-wealthy, the 1%, would withdraw to their gated estates and private islands, the 'preppers' to their bunkers. The remainder of economy would collapse into anarchy, there would be hundreds of millions of deaths. Just like Venezuala, but on a massive scale.

The worst part is, the so-called 'conservatives' and libertarians, like Rand Paul, are the very people who were prepared to let a narcissist meglomaniac overturn democracy for his own selfish ends. They rail about the 'evils of socialism' but meanwhile turn a blind eye to the obvious corruption of their own elected leader.

That's not really the question is it? A false trichotomy.

I would rather a country like Sweden, for all its failings. Or Australia. Mind you I totally recognize there are no utopias.

The system you are scorning IS that system. If, as you suggest, all government intervention and support was withdrawn, the ultra-wealthy, the 1%, woud withdraw to their gated estates and private islands, the 'preppers' to their bunkers. The remainded of economy would collapse into anarchy, there would be hundreds of millions of deaths. Just like Venezuala, but on a massive scale. — Wayfarer

My friend, you need to read up on how this economic system actually works. If you do not understand the monetary system, international trade and finance, you cannot understand what has been taking place over the past 50 years. The economic system has been horrible corrupted by political hacks and their overlords.

This happens every 75 years or thereabout so you have to route out the corruption. Capitalism has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but it there's a great deal about the way it works really well with freedom.

What you're talking about, what you're criticizing, IS capitalism. The fact that it has become so debt-riddled, so regulated, so corrupted, is 'realpolitik'. You have an idealised picture where everyone is free, nobody has debts, everyone is employed in their rightful occupation. But there's no way the current regime can simply be deconstructed in favour of some idealised, imaginary 'true capitalism'.

the percentage of adults receiving government benefits (over half) — synthesis

Working people pay taxes; they should get benefits. Rich people pay few if any taxes. They should not receive benefits (like tax give-aways). Better yet, just expropriate the to .001%. That's right: Take it all away from the billionaires.

the number of young adults (under 30) dug into their parents' basements — synthesis

The prime reason for this is the 50-year decline in income (and/or purchasing power) of working class people, and the maldistribution of wealth in the United States. Young adults can not earn enough to set up a home, even in dilapidated efficiencies. Comparison:

1971 - my take-home income: about $100 a week (worked for the RC church--last of the big spenders)
- my rent on a nice efficiency near work: $90 -- that's slightly less than 25% of income.
2020 85% of rental units in the same city are more than the cheapest $700 - 1000 range. To spend only 25% of one's income on rent one now has to bring home $48,000. Young adults might not be able to find a $1000 a month rent

Nanny-state — synthesis

The United States is the stingiest, least proactive nanny state among G20 countries. It's the most incompetent, negligent nanny that ever was (maybe after the Soviet Union).

What you're talking about, what you're criticizing, IS capitalism. The fact that it has become so debt-riddled, so regulated, so corrupted, is 'realpolitik'. You have an idealised picture where everyone is free, nobody has debts, everyone is employed in their rightful occupation. But there's no way the current regime can simply be deconstructed in favour of some idealised, imaginary 'true capitalism'. — Wayfarer

Human social interaction breeds corruption. It is present everywhere, not just in capitalism. So the best you can do it try to control the corruption.

Where did I suggest I have this idealized picture of anything? Look at what happened over the past 200 years and see if humanity is not 100x's better-off.

What is your alternative?

Where did I suggest I have this idealized picture of anything? — synthesis

When you say:

You MUST allow the system to work. — synthesis

Capitalism has its flaws, don't get me wrong, but it there's a great deal about the way it works really well with freedom. — synthesis

In all human (social) endeavor, you do what you can to keep the corruption to a minimum. This will allow for the best outcomes. — synthesis

You're presenting an idealised picture where the 'real' capitalism or the 'real' free market provides the best outcome for all, lifing everyone out of subservience and into what you present as 'independence'.

Unless one can achieve financial independence and intellectual autonomy, individuals will always be controlled (from without) resulting in the loss of essential freedoms (a great American tragedy). — synthesis

You're repeating the slogans of economic libertarians, who say that 'the free market' is the panacea to all social ills and that 'government intervention' and 'socialism' are the cause of corruption. It's a thoroughly idealised picture as there's no society in the modern world which actualises the kind of economic model you're striving for. I completely agree that corruption is something that has to be fought at all levels, but, as I pointed out, I think the current political right in the US are far more corrupt than the political left, mainly due to the influence of big money and the complete abandonment of traditional conservative principles under the de facto leadership of Trump.

Working people pay taxes; they should get benefits. Rich people pay few if any taxes. They should not receive benefits (like tax give-aways). Better yet, just expropriate the to .001%. That's right: Take it all away from the billionaires. — Bitter Crank

The working wealthy pay almost all the taxes in the U.S. The top .01% might not pay much because of their exotic shelters, but the rest pay it and pay it and pay it....

the number of young adults (under 30) dug into their parents' basements
— synthesis

The prime reason for this is the 50-year decline in income (and/or purchasing power) of working class people, and the maldistribution of wealth in the United States. Young adults can not earn enough to set up a home, even in dilapidated efficiencies. Comparison:

1971 - my take-home income: about $100 a week (worked for the RC church--last of the big spenders)
- my rent on a nice efficiency near work: $90 -- that's slightly less than 25% of income.
2020 85% of rental units in the same city are more than the cheapest $700 - 1000 range. To spend only 25% of one's income on rent one now has to bring home $48,000. Young adults might not be able to find a $1000 a month rent — Bitter Crank

The financialization of the U.S. economy speaks to a lot to it but look at the spending habits of the young people. They save zip. Spend it on new cars, vacations, $1000.+ cellphones that last a year, on and on and on. Most of these people deserve exactly what they are getting...nothing.

Nanny-state
— synthesis

The United States is the stingiest, least proactive nanny state among G20 countries. It's the most incompetent, negligent nanny that ever was (maybe after the Soviet Union). — Bitter Crank

Would you be happy if your taxes were 75% if your income instead of 50%? How about 90%? Wouldn't that be wonderful!

The government is NOT your friend.

I think the current political right in the US are far more corrupt than the political left, mainly due to the influence of big money. — Wayfarer

Is that why BIG tech, mass media, social media, corporate America, Wall Street, Education, and entrenched government are all on the left?

Who is the political right?

look at the spending habits of the young people — synthesis

I agree: The spending habits of young and middle aged people are very poorly informed. One doesn't need the top of the line cell phone, and -- by the way -- a decent phone lasts a lot longer than a year. A 5 year old phone will usually perform its primary functions just fine,

One of the reasons I could save money on my low-paying Catholic Church job was that I didn't consume much. I covered larger expenses with cash--no credit cards.

Granted: the economy now is not the same as 50 years ago. The value of $1000 in today (or to be precise 2019) would be worth $158.31 in 1972. MEANING $1000 has lost over 6 times its value since 1972.*** Declining or stagnant wages compound the problem.

True: some people are leaving colleges and getting high paying jobs that enable them to live on their own, travel, marry, have children, buy 4 cars (for 2 drivers), and have a mortgaged house full of @crap


*** Inflation Calculator

@crap Crap: A History of Cheap Stuff in America by Wendy A. Woloson. Buy this book and have yet 1 more piece of crap.

Who is the political right? — synthesis

The neonazis and their leader who almost toppled the US democracy are extreme right. FAUX News too.

People want (the illusion of getting) something for nothing and seem to do just about anything to those ends (including selling-out their kids, parents, you name it).

We have arrived at a place (like in the game of Monopoly) where one player essentially has all the assets and has won the game. It's time to pour all the money, houses, and hotels back into the box-lid and start a new game.

You mean the same people who led the great January 6th insurrection that completely changed the course of American history!?

I think they should not only keep all the fences and national guard in Washington, DC. (around the Capitol), but even better, fence off the entire city and then build prison walls around the metro area because this is where all the politicians, the lobbyists, and anybody else who has been destroying our democracy needs to be kept for the next 50 years!

I am afraid that people like you who desire salvation (from the challenges of life) feel that everybody else must change the way they think in order to feel as desperate as you do.

It's leftist religion. "Save me, save me, save me" (and save everybody else because they're going to have to pay for it). — synthesis

*sigh*
*facepalm*

I'm not going to defend things you merely imagine I said or stances you merely imagine I hold.

The fact that you need to resort to such lowly tactics just goes to show that your position has no merit.

You keep whining about big corporations and big government, but you also want people to be free to live up to their full potential.

Guess what? Big corporations and big government are exactly what some people being free to live up to their full potential looks like. It's you who wants the nanny state to protect you from others living up to their full potential.

think they should not only keep all the fences and national guard in Washington, DC. (around the Capitol), but even better, fence off the entire city and then build prison walls around the metro area because this is where all the politicians, the lobbyists, and anybody else who has been destroying our democracy needs to be kept for the next 50 years! — synthesis

See, you don't want people to live up to their full potential! You want to put them into prison for that!

Big corporations and big government are exactly what some people being free to live up to their full potential looks like. It's you who wants the nanny state to protect you from others living up to their full potential. — baker

You can do better than this.

See, you don't want people to live up to their full potential! You want to put them into prison for that! — baker

Ditto.

You whiner.

Does anybody see anything on the horizon that might indicate a reversal this incredibly disturbing trend? — synthesis

Economy is the thing that has an effect on Americans.

Just look at the rapid pace how the time shortens for the US to double it's debt. This 1,9 trillion debt package (the ARP) distributed all along will get the Biden administration to... late summer or fall? Again then? (And do note that this is a global phenomenon...at least in the West)

So this year the US is going from 100% debt to GDP to 110% to GDP and then onward:

Federal debt, which recently surpassed 100% of GDP, will approach 109% of GDP in FY 2021, assuming the US Treasury finances part of the upcoming spending from its unusually large cash balance, while general government debt will reach 127% of GDP in 2021, before surpassing 130% by 2023.

See US Stimulus Will Boost Growth at a Cost of Higher Deficits, Debt

You think this will go on perpetually?

Capitalism is the only economic system there is. — synthesis

You don’t even understanding what the word “capitalism” means.


There are four things to discuss here, two different distinctions:

- 1. Goods and services being exchanged voluntarily.
vs
- 2. Goods and services being exchanged under the coercion of an authority.

and

- 3. The stuff everyone uses to do stuff generally belonging to everyone.
vs
- 4. The stuff everyone uses to do stuff generally belonging to a small class of people.


1 is called "a free market".
2 is called "a command economy".
3 is called "socialism".
4 is called "capitalism".


People like Adam Smith argued for 1 over 2, and never said anything about "capitalism", but said some things suggestive of preferring 3 over 4 too.

People like Karl Marx argued for 3 over 4, and never said anything about "a command economy", but said some things suggestive of preferring 1 over 2 too.

Libertarian socialists are explicitly in favor of 1 and 3 over 2 and 4, and say that you can't have 1 without 3 or vice versa, because 2 will create 4 and vice versa.

People like you don't distinguish between 1 and 4, and just use the word "capitalism" as though it meant 1 only, when what everyone else is actually arguing against is 4.

*

You think this will go on perpetually? — ssu

Eventually, the music stops.

People like you don't distinguish between 1 and 4, and just use the word "capitalism" as though it meant 1 only, when what everyone else is actually arguing against is 4. — Pfhorrest

People like me? :)

There an infinite versions of everything, but when it comes down to it, there is one economic system. How different societies choose to manipulate it is what it is, but when you look at the most successful countries (on balance), they had the freest economies and populations that enjoyed the highest standards of living.