But with regards to your point about the SCOTUS, it looks like it's becoming increasingly unlikely since the GOP looks set to drop Trump like a rock so they may not think it worth it to keep him. — Mr Bee

I agree that this seems like the case. But we've seen the GOP posture to drop Trump before and then suddenly the ranks close and any remaining dissenters are sidelined.

So we could see a turn around on this due to leverage Trump has, or it's simply the right pretext hasn't been found yet. When it is found the base will rally around it and the GOP will go along for the reason you state.

It almost feels like the media and the states counting the votes are intentionally withholding their results because they know that if they were the ones who called the race then they will be the target of Trump and his violent supporters. — Mr Bee

This definitely could be a factor, but there could also be genuine voter fraud (probably mostly by Trump supporters operating under any number of available delusions) as well as old people with early phase Alzheimer's and literally forgot they mailed in a ballot and woke up on election day and said to themselves "oh, an election, better go vote". Or people just generally going crazy in 2020 and doing doing crazy stuff.

Cross checking and verifying double votes has to be crazy labour intensive.

And of course, saying they've found double ballets would trigger pandemonium, so if I was them I'd want to get rid of them as silently as possible.

Likewise, they could have people who just literally can't keep count and the numbers just don't add up and they need to redo things.

Then again, this election did show that alot of the electorate, including a large portion of Republicans, still value Trumpism, so it does put the future identity of the party into question — Mr Bee

Maybe we'll get lucky, and Trump will spur a split in the Republican party; if the Republicans won't have him back, he might run on his own platform, and take a big chunk of the Republican vote with him.

Ojai Valley, CA. — Pfhorrest

Have you been to the Krishnamurti school?

http://ojaihistory.com/krishnamurti-and-the-ojai-valley/

Maybe we'll get lucky, and Trump will spur a split in the Republican party; if the Republicans won't have him back, he might run on his own platform, and take a big chunk of the Republican vote with him — Pfhorrest

I'd prefer he get hit by a bus, but failing that, I like your theory.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "the" Krishnamurti school. There are several schools in the area owned by various theosophist groups. I did a summer program at Oak Grove School which is part of the Krishnamurti Foundation (I also used to live down the street from it and walk past it on the way to my public elementary school as a kid), and there's also the Happy Valley School in Upper Ojai which was founded by Krishnamurti, Aldus Huxley, and Annie Besant. There's also the Krotona Institute which is mostly a library and gardens but I think they might do some kind of other educational stuff there? I used to walk their gardens a lot back in the Before Times (they've been closed to the public since COVID-19 started).

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "the" Krishnamurti school — Pfhorrest

You obviously know what I'm referring to better than I do, which answers my question. Ojai always sounded like a nice place, so I'm happy for you that you live there.

From your story I was concerned you might be reporting from Butthead Alabama. :-)

Ojai always sounded like a nice place, so I'm happy for you that you live there. — Hippyhead

Thanks! I grew up here and have fought tooth and nail to remain here; California housing has gotten so expensive over my lifetime that it feels like my entire generation are going to be forced out of the state, or else live in tiny run-down trailers like I do.

Thanks! I grew up here and have fought tooth and nail to remain here; California housing has gotten so expensive over my lifetime that it feels like my entire generation are going to be forced out of the state, or else live in tiny run-down trailers like I do. — Pfhorrest

I hear ya. Like hippies everywhere Baba Hippyhead once dreamed of moving to California. Had to let that one go. Much the same story here in Florida though. People will keep moving here until we finally wreck the reason people want to move here. 1,000 people a day move to Florida. Not tourists, new residents.

I.e. despite the results showing that trying to win over GOP voters is a complete failure, these fucking morons reckon the way to go is to push even harder in this direction. — StreetlightX

It's like competing against coca-cola with something "almost like coke" that leaves you with a bitter taste in your mouth and genuinely makes you feel ill afterwards, but it's slightly better for your health (as in not quite as bad) and the company has slightly better corporate social responsibility lingo than does coca-cola the company. Then, after failing to convert coca-cola drinkers and dominate market share, conclude the problem is that the logo isn't quite a shitty enough imitation, within the trademark limits, as the real coca-cola logo.

I agree that this seems like the case. But we've seen the GOP posture to drop Trump before and then suddenly the ranks close and any remaining dissenters are sidelined.

So we could see a turn around on this due to leverage Trump has, or it's simply the right pretext hasn't been found yet. When it is found the base will rally around it and the GOP will go along for the reason you state. — boethius

I imagine their calculation is that since Trump is no longer gonna be president, then he's gonna lose the influence he has. As I said before I don't think that's exactly true since Trumpism is gonna stick around to terrorize us all, but if there's any time to dump Trump it would be immediately after an election where you have about 2 years to hope people forget about it.

I kind of wonder if the GOP leadership would get behind jailing Trump if he gets convicted after leaving office. You know, just to ensure he doesn't continue to bash the party that abandoned him through Trump TV or run again in 2024. With the exception of pathetic asskissers like Graham, I bet alot of them personally despise him anyways.

Maybe we'll get lucky, and Trump will spur a split in the Republican party; if the Republicans won't have him back, he might run on his own platform, and take a big chunk of the Republican vote with him. — Pfhorrest

Hopefully but right now that split seems to be mainly between leadership and the voters themselves, much like the Democratic party. It's clear that most of the GOP base adore Trump for some reason, but the establishment Republicans certainly don't and would want to move on from him. If they try to disassociate themselves from him, then that may hurt them in future elections but I don't know really.

Georgia finally flipped. Biden up by 1K.

As I said before I don't think that's exactly true since Trumpism is gonna stick around to terrorize us all, but if there's any time to dump Trump it would be immediately after an election where you have about 2 years to hope people forget about it. — Mr Bee

Yes, we're in agreement. One reason there's not yet a SCOTUS push is simply it's not clear yet what ruling in what state is required to hand Trump the election; where are the hanging chads of 2020 so to speak. If such a thing becomes clear, I would predict ranks closing around Trump and repeating whatever this "great scandal" is 24/7 for the reasons you state.

I kind of wonder if the GOP leadership would get behind jailing Trump if he gets convicted after leaving office. You know, just to ensure he doesn't continue to bash the party that abandoned him through Trump TV or run again in 2024. With the exception of pathetic asskissers like Graham, I bet alot of them personally despise him anyways. — Mr Bee

I doubt they personally despise him, he makes them rich. I think they doubted Trumpism could work, but the fact that it does brings them significant pleasure. They now have a base completely loyal, completely unquestioning, completely impervious to criticism from the "liberal media", and who can be counted on to shout one thing one day and the exact opposite thing the next -- indeed, even hour to hour, minute to minute.

So far, I only see republican's criticise Trump whom Trump threw under the bus and humiliated, so understandable but potentially pre-mature. They have nothing to lose anyway, so better take this one brief moment to once again shine in the sun and breath the fresh air before returning to their GOP dungeon once again.

Link? CNN is still 463 in favour of Trump. @180 Proof, thank you for your vote. :razz:

CNN is up to speed too.

I doubt they personally despise him, he makes them rich. — boethius

So does work, but that doesn't mean you necessarily love it. Remember, Trump disrespected John McCain's military service, insulted Ted Cruz's wife, and destroyed Session's (the first GOP congressman to actually endorse him in 2016) political career for doing his job. I'm pretty sure all of them would shed as many tears for his death as Trump would for Herman Cain.

I think they doubted Trumpism could work, but the fact that it does brings them significant pleasure. — boethius

Not if they're trying to distance themselves from Trump. In that case, they just turned a huge chunk of their party against them. Personally I think they're afraid of them and how easily they can turn on them if their dear leader happens to not feel good about them one day and sends out a bad tweet. Understand that they're not loyal to them, but to a guy who contradicts himself every other day.

So far, I only see republican's criticise Trump whom Trump threw under the bus and humiliated, so understandable but potentially pre-mature. — boethius

Well, some Republicans are backing away from his current claims of voter fraud. Sounds like they're not gonna back him if he loses.

↪Mr Bee
Link? CNN is still 463 in favour of Trump. 180proof, thank you for your vote. :-P — Benkei

As of 3 minutes ago CNN reports:

Race tightens in Georgia: In Georgia, another state that Trump cannot afford to lose with its 16 electoral votes, Biden's mail-in ballot advantage has pulled him to within 500 votes of the President, as results came in from Fulton County around Atlanta with 99% of the state vote count reported. — CNN

So, they seem unaware if it's true.

So does work, but that doesn't mean you necessarily love it. Remember, Trump disrespected John McCain's military service, insulted Ted Cruz's wife, and destroyed Session's (the first GOP congressman to actually endorse him in 2016) political career for doing his job. I'm pretty sure all of them would shed as many tears for his death as Trump would for Herman Cain. — Mr Bee

I honestly don't think the majority of GOP politicians care about any of that. Trump won against all these people, so is just "making the world in his image" as Ayn Rand preached. Trump got the tax cuts passed, military budget increased, and the areas worst affected by the pandemic increased their loyalty and support.

The liberal media makes a big thing about any GOP politician slightly criticizing Trump or announcing principles in obvious contradiction to Trump, but this is a small quantity and all those politicians bend the knee to Trump in the end, or then basically disappear. All GOP senators bent the knee and voted to acquit Trump.

Not if they're trying to distance themselves from Trump. In that case, they just turned a huge chunk of their party against them. — Mr Bee

Yes, but who? Romney, Christy: they were already outcasts. Everything else I've seen is just hedgy weasel words from people far down the chain who aren't sure what way the wind is blowing, such as Shapiro's "brave tweet" about counting votes; if the wind turns in Trump's favour Shapiro will be first to explain why the votes in question aren't "real votes; votes on election day; that, yes, you need to count votes that are real, but the president was actually talking about fake votes, maybe he didn't use the right words but he felt what was going on, and we'll know they're fake votes because the SCOTUS decides what's a real or a fake vote, because we live in a country of laws and the definition of a fake vote is whatever the SCOTUS decides, just common sense; let's be clear, let's be totally clear, what we're talking about here is people who saw Trump was winning in the count and mailed in, or then we don't know if they did or not and that's a tainted vote that can't count to respect the law, after the polls closed and by democrats who thought Biden was for sure going to win then seeing how strong Trump actually is, then panicking and mailing in their ballet, that these liberal weed smokers were just too lazy to do before the election, after the polls closed -- which, I remind you again, the SCOTUS hasn't even completely ruled whether mail in ballets for people who don't need them is even a legal thing in this country -- and that's wrong, that's being a sore loser and trying to change the election after the election, Trump is just defending himself" etc., etc., etc., or whatever the hanging chad issue happens to be.

Georgia's not out of the woods yet even after this election. They're gonna have to deal with the runoff elections which could decide the fate of the Senate and also potential stimulus.

I originally thought that a Republican Senate and a Democratic president would completely destroy any hopes for a stimulus package but perhaps there is a chance after all of one passing if the Democrats message themselves right. They need to make it clear that the GOP are gonna prevent any sort of stimulus package from happening if they lose these senate seats and demonstrate the catastrophic effects of inaction on the economy. Who knows, perhaps this would actually put pressure on the GOP to pass something in the lame duck, in which case awesome, but it's more likely that Trump and McConnell would not be interested and the Democrats need to point to that as proof of what they're saying. And if the SCOTUS decides to dismantle the ACA then point that out too. Make the two Georgia senators who'd rather vote for a judge then help the American people pay up for their actions. The runoff election is gonna happen in January so the Democrats better start dumping their excess campaign money into that state now.

I honestly don't think the majority of GOP politicians care about any of that. — boethius

I'm pretty sure they do, especially if you're Cruz, McCain, or Sessions. The establishment GOP live in a bubble away from the troubles of the middle class, but it's a bubble full of rich and powerful people like them. If you insult one of their buddies then they'll care.

Trump got the tax cuts passed, military budget increased, and the areas worst affected by the pandemic increased their loyalty and support. — boethius

Literally any other Republican would pass tax cuts and further fund the military (heck even some Democrats would do the latter too). As for the pandemic, polls showed that the places most affected by the pandemic saw a decrease in Trump support. Then again, that may not mean much since polls have shown themselves to be quite unreliable in the age of Trump.

The liberal media makes a big thing about any GOP politician slightly criticizing Trump or announcing principles in obvious contradiction to Trump, but this is a small quantity and all those politicians bend the knee to Trump in the end, or then basically disappear. All GOP senators bent the knee and voted to acquit Trump. — boethius

They bent the knee because their political careers are on the line. Trump was still president and they were about to have an election back when they acquitted him. Those elections already happened now and Trump looks like he's about to head for the exit so the situation is different.

I mean I guess not every election since the Georgia senate race is going to a runoff. Would be interesting to see whether the senators there side with Trump in dismantling democracy or try to disassociate themselves with him. Either move could cost them, helping the Democrats in January if they manage to keep their enthusiasm up. Like I said in my post above, there's a really big opportunity for the Democrats to actually put pressure on the SCOTUS and the Senate in the lame duck since the runoff is in January.

Yes, but who? — boethius

McConnell's been distancing himself from Trump for a while now since he expects him to lose. He criticized his lax safety measures in the White House when he got COVID and he and the rest of the Senate were adamantly against the big stimulus package that he and Pelosi were negotiating, instead drawing the line at $500 Billion when Trump is asking for $1.8 Trillion. Trump's been losing his grip on his party for a while now and he's too unhinged in order to realize it.

Interesting to hear Trump's latest ranting video. As usual he accuses his opponents of doing precisely what he's doing himself in trying to corrupt the election.
He seems tired. I think his monstrous and obsessive ego is fighting possibly its last stand against the evidence that the world will no longer bow before it. Paranoia is not far from him already. However, if he seems to be losing the faith his once-fanatical supporters will desert him qucker than rats leaving the proverbial sinking ship. If as now seems likely the remaining results pile up against him and his empty legal challenges don't even get off the ground he could undergo a complete ego collapse. For such an ego-maniac that could bring on either insanity or suicide. All I have to say is it couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

People seem awfully quick in predicting Trump's downfall in disgrace. The counting of votes hasn't even finished, and it's a long road to Jan 20.

He still has motivated supporters. There are protests. They're peaceful for now, but things are held in suspense because a winner hasn't been announced. It's not at all clear it will stay that way once CNN calls it for Biden.

The All Lives Matter crowd is extremely upset to learn that All Votes Matter. — Kathy June

:D

McConnel is specifically referring to illegally cast ballots in a tweet. Seems like a dogwhistle to me.

It almost feels like the media and the states counting the votes are intentionally withholding their results because they know that if they were the ones who called the race then they will be the target of Trump and his violent supporters. — Mr Bee

Violence has been more a characteristic of leftist groups. This is all part of a divisive narrative that vilifies the opposition. Trump declares without evidence that the election has been a fraud, and here you've declared without evidence that elections officials are withholding results for fear they'll be beaten.

The reason Trump is losing is because more people voted for Biden. The reason certain states haven't been called is because they haven't counted enough of the ballots to be sure.

Violence has been more a characteristic of leftist groups. — Hanover

Violence against people more a characteristic of rightist groups, property maybe leftists.

Violence has been more a characteristic of leftist groups. — Hanover

Fake news.

Biden wins. Final electoral college outcome likely 306 to 232. A solid win and larger than Trump's over Clinton. As per the likely scenario outlined by pollsters such as 538. The popular vote predictions were off but state by state electoral results more or less as expected.

People seem awfully quick in predicting Trump's downfall in disgrace. — Echarmion

:smile: :up:
As of this moment Biden has edged ahead in both Pennsylvania and Georgia, and Biden is heading for around 300 electoral votes for better than a 60 vote win. The Trump court cases are without merit but will be dragged out until Federal charges are filed against Trump and his family. If he wants to stay out of jail and ever see a penny of his future ill-begotten billions he will make a deal before January 20.

Let's hope this doesn't come to pass.