I would argue that there is a dedicated effort to keep the people divided in the US. — ssu

I would concur. While the issues of racial injustice and the unaccountability of law enforcement officers are problems, and I'm glad that they are being discussed more and more, they are not the only issues. The economic issues are on the back burner. Justice reform has built bridges that socioeconomic reform can walk across... the time is closer than it was ten or fifteen years ago when those underlying problems were not given any attention by the general public.

Is it really aimed? You really think that this isn't a problem in very poor white communities in the US? — ssu

This is making the exact same fallacious remark again. Because it also happens to white people, it isn't systematically happening to black people twice as much. But it is, so...

So is this really an issue of police brutality being aimed at somebody or the police using excessive force generally when arresting people? — ssu

Factually, the former. White people die in police custody too. But black people particularly so. They are twice as likely to be killed than white people. We also have plenty of documentary evidence of deliberate killing of black people that goes beyond heavy-handedness. Even someone as dumb as a cop has seen enough to know that choking someone for a solid 8 minutes is a good way to kill them. The 'heavy-handed' defense when it is quite clear that these murders go well beyond heavy-handedness (e.g. shooting someone in the back and planting a gun on them) really does suggest that racists will say literally anything to deny there is a problem.

There is no absolutely no difficulty in understanding that Black Americans are disproportionally targeted by police numerous ways and that police have been militarized in American which effects all Americans regardless of skin color. The preponderance and reaction engendered by the former (e.g. Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Jacob Blake), in fact, helps provide credence to the latter, as evidenced by the fact that there is no major protest as a result of a 13-year-old autistic boy being cut down by cops. — Maw

:clap:

:up:

I smell a Biden pardon, and suspect it will be framed as a means to move forward and past these issues that have divided our nation. [ ... ] I could be wrong about the pardon. — creativesoul

I suspect Putin's covIDIOT Bitch will resign instead some time after the election (Win - to avoid another impeachment, then Democratic Senate trial & removal - or Lose) but well before Biden's Inauguration so that Pence can pardon him and his children (and maybe a few select stooges).

I would concur. While the issues of racial injustice and the unaccountability of law enforcement officers are problems, and I'm glad that they are being discussed more and more, they are not the only issues. The economic issues are on the back burner. Justice reform has built bridges that socioeconomic reform can walk across... the time is closer than it was ten years ago when those underlying problems were not given due attention. — creativesoul

And that's why I think discussion is important. And yes, the obvious elephant in the room, the economic situation, is forgotten.

My country doesn't have riots on the streets or similar problems as they now have in Sweden, yet I have to go just to the generation of my great grandparents, and Finns were killing other Finns in a civil war. I don't think my generation or the younger ones aren't much different from them. Social cohesion and respect for people who have opposing views is important for any democracy to function. And understanding that things can get really much worse and very quickly is important. When the worst happens, the vast majority of people can just be left thinking of what insanity has taken over the country and their fellow countrymen.

In the US you already have the emergence of such an ugly divide forming up, and a spark can happen in country filled up with guns when a Kyle Rittenhouse type meets a Michael Reinoehl type in a protest filled with people. Will after a bloody shooting the discussion be more easy? Will reform happen or will it be the new President invoking the Insurrection act? I don't think so. Later people just want to move on and forget the whole dismal time.

And yes, the obvious elephant in the room, the economic situation, is forgotten. — ssu

Actually, I'm more than good putting the racial justice reform on the front burner and the political corruption of American government on the back. The coalition is growing.

Social cohesion and respect for people who have opposing views is important for any democracy to function... — ssu

Well... that needs quite a bit more qualification. The US is not a democracy, nor ought it ever aim to be. Mob rule denies liberty to minority. Social cohesion is as good an aim as any. Some views, however, are completely unacceptable.

Factually, the former. White people die in police custody too. But black people particularly so. They are twice as likely to be killed than white people. — Kenosha Kid

And also twice as likely to be arrested, even more likely to be incarcerated and have higher crime rates, yet also poorer and higher unemployment numbers. So why the former?

The US is not a democracy, nor ought it ever aim to be. — creativesoul

This the argument that it's a Republic? I guess democracies are usually republics, even if some are technically monarchies.

The US is not a democracy, nor ought it ever aim to be.
— creativesoul
This the argument that it's a Republic? — ssu

Well, it's a republican form of government with strong democratic tradition. But...

No. That's not an argument at all. It's a true statement.

You've misspelt "plutocracy".

So why the former? — ssu

For reasons already given but seemingly ignored. This isn't the 80s anymore. You can't just ignore evidence and claim it's a mystery/non-issue.

And also twice as likely to be arrested, even more likely to be incarcerated... — ssu

You do realise that those murdered on the streets don't end up incarcerated. That's not an overlap, that's an additional injustice.

More and more

For reasons already given but seemingly ignored. This isn't the 80s anymore. You can't just ignore evidence and claim it's a mystery/non-issue. — Kenosha Kid

Based on statistics, the incarceration rates of blacks is the statistic that isn't in line. Likely here the biggest reason is the war on drugs (see the stats). Yet the percentage of offenses charged is quite close to the percentage of deaths due to use of lethal force by the police.

..........................................white..black
Percentage of population: 63......13
of total offenses charged : 69......27
Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement: 54......32
Inmates in prison by race: 57.....38

Based on statistics, the incarceration rates of blacks is the statistic that isn't in line. — ssu

Please explain how that third statistic is in line.

:up:

:rofl:

Please explain how that third statistic is in line. — Kenosha Kid

If deaths or prison sentences would have no racial bias, then the total offenses charged would be a good indicator in telling how many go to jail or how many are killed by the police.

32% differs from 27% by 5%, which is noticeable, yet 38% (percentage of inmates) differs from 27% by 11%, which is huge.

New Project Veritas video, this time about ballot harvesting in Ilhan Omar’s district. Rigged elections.

In review, [Project Veritas]'s videos are edited in a way that makes them difficult to fact check. Often his information is debunked, but it is too late as the information has already been watched by thousands or more. In general, the narrative created by [Project Veritas], whether edited or not is to portray liberals in a negative light.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/project-veritas/

They were misleading (or at least mistaken) about at least one thing. At the time there was an injunction against the law that prevented a single person from being the designated agent for more than 3 absentee ballots (since been reversed by the Minnesota Supreme Court).

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/dscc-simon-order.pdf

The Secretary of State is also temporarily enjoined from enforcing the provisions of
Minn. Stat. § 203B.08, subd. 1 that limits a person from assisting more than three voters in returning or mailing their ballots.

The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue)[1] is a fallacy of irrelevance that is based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. In other words, a claim is ignored in favor of attacking or championing its source.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

If deaths or prison sentences would have no racial bias, then the total offenses charged would be a good indicator in telling how many go to jail or how many are killed by the police. — ssu

And yet they're not. And even if they were, that would not be evidence of no racial bias. Black people are more often pulled over in stop and search, and black communities are much more heavily policed. You are far more likely to get charged with possession of marijuana if you're black, for instance. The statistics are rather damning, and it's difficult to squint the sufficient amount for them to come out even.

Personally I think that the reliability of the source matters quite a lot when we're talking about trusting news reports, but apparently you think otherwise.

It's not as if our resident Trumptard doesn't routinely complain about how untrustworthy the MSM is. Don't pay attention to him. If you want to talk to a Conservative, talk to Hanover or ssu.

It’s not a news report. But you’d know that if you watched it.

Well I'm not really looking for a serious conversation with these folks since I can tell they're a lost cause. I'm mostly just in it to mess with them :razz:.

He literally bragged about not paying taxes in the 2016 debates

Our resident lawyer will believe anything so long as it conforms to his preconceived worldview. If you want to take advice from a commie go read Zizek.

Imagine taking project Veritas seriously :rofl:

No wonder this fucker is how he is.

Incoming jacobinmag article...