It's a myth that politics is dictated entirely by money. — Wheatley

Elections might not but legislation most definitely correlates with who had the money to influence the process.

Elections might not but legislation most definitely correlates with who had the money to influence the process. — Benkei

I'm not going to argue about that. The point was to address the claim that @NOS4A2 made in which no one needs to support BLM because they are well funded.

And here I thought I was being reasonable, the only sane person in a madhouse. — NOS4A2

That's what all the inmates think.

It seems like I might be unintentionally helping @NOS4A2's claim. :scream:

Why does BLM need our support if they are well funded?

Why support a cause worth supporting?

Well if you frame it that way it doesn't seem like a bad idea to support BLM.

Politics is way too confusing. I'm out. :smile:

Not to me.

Heh, no doubt. :grin:

When self-avowed marxists start disrupting families through their make-believe “villages”, I see trouble. No activist network can substitute for family or community, and no one needs to support a well-funded protest organization to fight against racism. So use your hashtags and fist emojis to your heart’s content. — NOS4A2

Your really can't read can you? They stated "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement". And why would that be? Maybe because 1 in 3 of black men end up in jail at some point in time and the nuclear family is too often not the reality?

They even state in the paragraph before it "we make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children." They're not anti family and they're not trying to replace it but to support them through wider networks, such as, ironically, communities that you actually mention in the very next sentence.

The rest of that post is just silly. Nobody needs to support a well funded political party either. Oh wait.

Yes. But this is the way the current discourse goes in the "culture war". Nobody cares to actually read what others are saying, but try to look at how it can be interpreted in the worst way possible to further one's own agenda.

Like the Devil reading the Bible, as a Finnish saying goes.

Cool saying. Speaking of culture war. According to Trump the US is under attack from "far left fascism". I suppose, in the case of the US, it's a nice change of pace that after years of right wing fascism (under the guise of deregulation and austerity for welfare) that we now get left wing fascism.

The victims of right wing fascism were mass transfer of wealth from most people to the rich elite for the past 30-40 years or so. The victims of left wing fascism so far are a couple of statues and a bit of property damage. I guess I'm all for left wing fascism then.

mass transfer of wealth from most people to the rich elite for the past 30-40 years or so. — Benkei

VS

a couple of statues and a bit of property damage — Benkei

It's nice to see things in perspective. :clap:

But from another perspective it seems like the left wants to destroy American artifacts from its lovely history. Sacrilege! :scream:

Speaking of culture war. According to Trump the US is under attack from "far left fascism". I suppose, in the case of the US, it's a nice change of pace that after years of right wing fascism (under the guise of deregulation and austerity for welfare) that we now get left wing fascism. — Benkei

Fascism is just a swear word these days. Remember the "Islamofascists" of the Dubya years.

I guess I'm all for left wing fascism then. — Benkei

If you like this time, how much worse would it have to get to change your mood? Because things may be worse in the fall. I cannot see the elections anything else but polarizing, nasty and a huge confusion. Of course there is the possibility that Trump is so bad that he actually unifies the country in opposing him. Yet, well, might not happen.

The standard length of unemployment benefits is six months in the US and the record unemployment started in late March, so come November and Americans will have a problem. States now having to close restaurants and etc. because of the rampant pandemic doesn't look like the US heading for a V-shaped recovery. This all will have an effect on what we call the "culture war" and likely even on the protests against police brutality.

One objection to the BLM slogan is that it isn't true for some people. For some people, black lives are not important. The orthogonality thesis of the relationship of intelligence and goals suggests that no amount of asserting that black lives matter will be persuasive to those who do not think they matter. But maybe those people are not the intended audience. Maybe the intended audience are the lathargic who do think that black lives matter, but not enough to actually do much about it.

This is dumb. You may as well have said that 'one objection to anti-racism is racism'.

In a discussion of terminal goals, I think this is where we end up. But maybe we're not discussing terminal goals. Maybe there is a common goal that racists and non-racists have.

If you like this time, how much worse would it have to get to change your mood? — ssu

I don't like the times (global warming, pollution, over fishing, the PRC, mass extinction of species, Russian meddling, Trump and his racist base, I could go on) but I do like what BLM stands for, which is what Trump was referring to with his fascism comment.

How on Earth does this constitute an "objection"? The fact that black lives don't matter to some people is the whole point and the entire reason BLM exists. This is like saying that the fact that some people commit murder is an "objection" to the moral principle that you shouldn't murder anyone.

you shouldn't murder anyone. — Enai De A Lukal

I object to that because I believe in the right to murder. :rofl:

BLM can be great way to vent the anger into something useful...assuming something would be done. I just think things likely won't go well.

Just remember that many were arguing prior to COVID-19 that the US would have the best ability to respond and tackle a global pandemic.

No idea what you're on about.

It's a political organization. And also could easily be bait and switch. You mention one thing decent then throw in foreign destabilization tactics exploiting a nation's conciousness and open society all while using (yet again) disprivileged people as the fall group. You really can't get more evil than that. Unless of course the people responsible are running the show. Which is possible.

The Constitution says "all men created equal". Literally anyone in a state position who acts against this is in violation of Color of Law and is an enemy of the State which can bring up to the death penalty. Now let's seperate the real from the ideal for a second. It doesn't always work like that. Which begs the question, what would they want if not this system in place functioning properly? Chaos? No. That's cancer. You wouldn't want that anywhere.

Without talking like a "racist" this planet has been wrought with unimaginable suffering. Even relatively recently. Entire cities of Asians were nuked killing the better half of 100,000 people. Whites were the most enslaved, granted usually by their own.. in Rome a redhead slave would fetch top dollar. Basically it was a common practice. There's nothing "wrong" with black people, in fact you can just ask around they are far from "inferior".

Most people just know what they read but I'd bet there's a higher up people who just have it out for the US government because all of a sudden they can't have "muh Game of Thrones expansionism" using people's whose lives would be worth more than yours if you ever really got in the way. Prove me wrong.

How on Earth does this constitute an "objection"? The fact that black lives don't matter to some people is the whole point and the entire reason BLM exists. This is like saying that the fact that some people commit murder is an "objection" to the moral principle that you shouldn't murder anyone. — Enai De A Lukal

Sure. But to convince a murderer or racist that their values are wrong, it is not sufficient to present the opposing value. You have to give them a reason why their value does not achieve a higher goal that they have. By drawing attention to a higher goal that we share, then argument becomes relevant, as we can say that valuing black lives achieves that goal more effectively than not valuing black lives because x,y,z.

Just remember that many were arguing prior to COVID-19 that the US would have the best ability to respond and tackle a global pandemic. — ssu

Who argued that but US persons?

This might help, not sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUO6pjwFOo&t=311s

For example, a higher goal might be to 'Not feel scared'. One way for racists to stop feeling scared is to kill, or imprison, or put behind a wall, people with black skin. And we could oppose this by saying 'It's bad to do that to black people'. And they could coherently respond, 'No, it's good because it will stop us being scared'. Alternatively we could respond by suggesting that their fear is unfounded, that black people are not actually a source of danger (or not a significant one worth worrying about) and that a better way to deal with fear is to examine actual realistic sources of risk.

Your really can't read can you? They stated "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement". And why would that be? Maybe because 1 in 3 of black men end up in jail at some point in time and the nuclear family is too often not the reality?

They even state in the paragraph before it "we make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children." They're not anti family and they're not trying to replace it but to support them through wider networks, such as, ironically, communities that you actually mention in the very next sentence.

The rest of that post is just silly. Nobody needs to support a well funded political party either. Oh wait.

They disrupt the western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement because 1 in 3 black men end up in jail? Can you quote them on that or are you just making that up? Don’t bother, I already know the answer.

I don't think the issue is anything you mentioned. I think black people like me disagree with the target and specific methods of their efforts. I'm not anti BLM, but I don't feel strongly enough about their politics to support the change they are trying to make. They think that because a people are in crisis, any grand collective solution is better than the current circumstance. I think this is a misstep.

Are they, as you claimed, disrupting families and is that their goal, or were you full of shit as usual?

Anyone can go look at the quote, which doesn’t include anything about men in jail. That’s because you made it up.

I found this on Quora: Why is BLM "committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure"?

Because:

The origins of black American culture are different from the origins of white American culture, and the nuclear family evolved from European family norms. A model that only permits this one type of family is dishonest about the many cultures that came together to make our country.
Historically, white slave owners actively worked to prevent black slaves from forming this kind of family unit. Later, segregation, redlining, generational poverty, and other effects of systemic racism made, and still make, a greater challenge for many black families vs. white families to form the nuclear family structure. White culture demands that black culture conform to that structure, but puts obstacles in the way, while maintaining the narrative that black people are less valuable and their family and community structures are less legitimate than their white counterparts.
Because of their view from outside of white culture, black Americans have a valuable perspective of the nuclear family, with profound criticisms that everyone should listen to.
Our culture is structured so that the nuclear family is expected to exist in isolation, without a network of support from neighbors and relatives. Even the strongest and fittest people find that way of living stressful, because that’s not how humans are intended to live. Two people working as a team cannot wear every hat—caregiver, breadwinner, housekeeper, groundskeeper, chef, program director, etc. Two people alone live close to the wire—just one unexpected job loss or medical crisis away from disaster. And because they are supposed to be everything the other person needs, they often resent one another and end up with an unhealthy distribution of power, labor, and leisure. But they’re expected to fake it and smile, and keep passing on the lie that the nuclear family is the only and the entire way to be family.

And because that nuclear family is so enshrined, people who exist outside of a nuclear family are devalued and their families are treated as if they aren’t “real.” And people who exist inside of a violent or otherwise broken nuclear family are under pressure to keep the family unit together at all costs—that is, visibly together, even though it’s non-functional.

Yet with all the modern American mythos built around the nuclear family, where that model disintegrates, people keep on parenting and people keep on partnering up. Partnership, parenting, and community are core to the expression of human life. We should celebrate, support, and participate in healthy partnership, healthy parenting, and healthy community, no matter the forms they take.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-BLM-committed-to-disrupting-the-Western-prescribed-nuclear-family-structure