I’m getting the story (or whatever) straight, Ms Reade at the time (in 1993) filed a complaint about inappropriate shoulder touching, unwanted closeness, and the like. (No surprise here, Joe has been on video countless times doing similar creepy things to numerous women, unfortunately.). This would definitely qualify as harassment. BUT... no PUBLIC mention of any rape or sexual assault by Ms Reade until a couple months ago. Why? — 0 thru 9

Her story abruptly changed recently.

Her story abruptly changed recently. — frank

"Two women told Business Insider that Tara Reade, a former Senate staffer who has accused Joe Biden of sexual assault, mentioned the alleged incident to them in the mid-1990s, around the time she says it occurred. Lynda LaCasse, who once lived next to Reade, and Lorraine Sanchez, who worked with Reade in the California legislature, both say that Reade told them she had been fired from a job for reporting sexual harassment. Though Sanchez didn’t recall Reade telling her that Biden was the perpetrator, or that the misconduct in question was a sexual assault, the story LaCasse heard lines up closely with the one Reade has taken to the press.

“I remember her saying, here was this person that she was working for and she idolized him,” LaCasse told Business Insider. “And he kind of put her up against a wall. And he put his hand up her skirt and he put his fingers inside her. She felt like she was assaulted, and she really didn’t feel there was anything she could do.” Reade was in tears as she told the story, LaCasse added."

Exact same story that she told her friends at the time.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/theres-new-corroborative-evidence-for-tara-reades-story.html

The story she made public changed drastically just recently.

But I'm going with "he did it" so...

BUT... no PUBLIC mention of any rape or sexual assault by Ms Reade until a couple months ago. Why? — 0 thru 9

Maybe she was intimidated by those out there who would try to tear her down, or by Biden and the DNC themselves, and the implications for her ever having a career, but in the end the thought of the guy who sexually assaulted her (if he did) becoming President became too much to bear. That's perfectly plausible.

These are serious accusations, of course. Accusations that would warrant a prison sentence if true. There should be a serious inquiry or trial. Public testimony under oath. — 0 thru 9

Yes, exactly. As there was with Kavanaugh. Same thing. Try to get to the bottom of it. Either that or he stands down.

Let’s suppose that Biden is forced to step down from the nomination because of his actions. Should Trump be likewise be forced to not run for a second term, because of his multiple sexual assault accusations (which he has gleefully admitted to)? — 0 thru 9

Ideally, yes.

The system is broken, and it is depressing and nauseating. I am not sure if those living in countries other than the USA really can completely feel that. Though I appreciate any objective and thoughtful critique. — 0 thru 9

Plutocracies are not nice places to live in if you care about politics at all. Or are not stinking rich.

Maybe it's a politically motivated false accusation; it should not end the campaign (it should be investigated asap due to the public's need for accurate information about their candidates IMO). But the fact that democratic loud and bleeding hearts are exceptionally silent on this is just loathsome. You can't kick up an ultimate fuss about rape-culture and then not look stupid when you do a full speed 180 the moment it's no longer convenient...

Long story short, Biden is at this point as difficult a sell as Hillary Clinton was, but probably worse. Trump will probably have less support this go-round, I'm just afraid it won't be enough to counteract the hoards of disenfranchised and dissatisfied potential democrats, who once more, will vote third party, or Trump, out of raw desire to spite the DNC and its self-serving system. — VagabondSpectre

Yep. Well said. About a year ago, I thought Trump had the advantage. Then a few months ago, Bernie looked like he could win it. Then Biden took the nomination, and Trump bungled the virus response. So Joe was looking like the favorite. The 2020 presidential election is a greased pig. (fishfry calling for HRC to run in 5,4,3,2,1... :blush: )

"WhY sAcriFiciNG 1000 ViRgINs oN tHe AlTaR oF CThULhU iS nOt As BAD aS a sECoND TruMP PreSideNCY, aND wHy iM voTinG for BiDeN" — VagabondSpectre

Darn... thought this was a link to a NY Post story with lots of photos, lol.

We are stuck, we are fucked. Short of the revolution or Econo-eco-politico-socio-religio-etcio collapse, nothings going to change — Bitter Crank

Can you ease my pain?

There was probably more controversy in the MSM in 1988 over Biden being accused of plagiarism than there is now of him being accused of sexual assault. How far we've come... (Judging by the video, the guy is apparently a serial liar btw).

No, I don't think it is psychopathology. I loathe Trump; I dislike Biden. BUT, by and large, both parties and both candidates are rational servants of the class to whom they are indebted. Neither Trump or Biden is going to piss off the capitalist elite by doing anything rashly destructive to their interests.

Third party? I wish there was a third party of strength and substance. It would have to be very large and very effective indeed to push out both the democrats and republicans, and we don't have a parliamentary system, so winning some seats doesn't help much.

Not only are we stuck in a possibly long lasting pandemic, we're stuck in a global climate crisis and we have the misfortune of being born into mature and hegemonic, maybe late stage capitalism. Being late stage capitalism doesn't mean they'll be going anywhere soon. We are stuck, we are fucked. Short of the revolution or Econo-eco-politico-socio-religio-etcio collapse, nothings going to change — Bitter Crank

:up: Definitely! Agreed. So how about this... Bernie Sanders/Bitter Crank 2020 independent ticket. And don’t say you’re too busy! (Unless you work in a hospital, grocery store, or as an Internet forum moderator, lol).

BUT, by and large, both parties and both candidates are rational servants of the class to whom they are indebted. Neither Trump or Biden is going to piss off the capitalist elite by doing anything rashly destructive to their interests — Bitter Crank

This seems obvious to me but it's just not sinking in.

The system is broken, and it is depressing and nauseating. I am not sure if those living in countries other than the USA really can completely feel that. — 0 thru 9

We can.

Maybe she was intimidated by those out there who would try to tear her down, or by Biden and the DNC themselves, and the implications for her ever having a career, but in the end the thought of the guy who sexually assaulted her (if he did) becoming President became too much to bear. That's perfectly plausible. — Baden

Very possibly true. If a mugger will shoot someone to steal a mere cellphone, and of course politicians have had people eliminated for getting in the way of their plans. She has a lot to lose. But, to play devil’s advocate, there is possibly a tremendous amount for her TO GAIN right now. Money, fame, book deals. Slush money from the RNC, and hush money from the DNC??? Speculation... sure. But just as possible. I don’t know what to believe. Somebody is viciously lying. Not a good situation, but probably politics as usual.

But thanks for your response and for other comments, which I agree with. :up:

If it's true, I don't begrudge her any benefits she may get from it. If it's not, then considering she told the same story thirty years ago to several friends, this would be one hell of a long-term Machiavellian plot. I suppose I just have no problem believing Biden is the kind of scumbag who would do what she said he did, especially if you go back and look at video of him at that time (now he just appears pathetic), whereas I do have a problem believing she made this up thirty years ago in order that she might eventually get something out of it now. So, unless it's demonstrated that she's seriously mentally ill, I'm going with the obvious conclusion (and I think the case here is even stronger than the Blasey Ford one given the corroborating evidence).

Edit: Just to add, I hated Lindsey Graham's outburst at the Kavanaugh hearings, but now I realize he was right, Dems don't give a fuck about women. It was pure politics.

Yep, Biden can seem rather self-serving. Don’t know if he took lessons from “Slick Willie” Clinton or not. :cool:

The point here is to highlight the fact that at some point, the character of the person elected must matter. — Baden

And what an insightful point it is.

Where do we rank Trump's character? Rape and pedophilia aside, what we do know for certain is this: "Climate change is a Chinese hoax."

So we're left with a choice. Two accused rapists (one with over 10 women corroborating), both beholden to the corporate sector. We don't know for certain about the former, but we do know from the least 4 years about where Trump wants to take the country: right off the cliff.

A vote for Biden is not a vote in favor of the DNC or his character, it's a vote against Trump. Let Biden be thrown out of office - he's an empty candidate anyway. What matters is getting rid of the tumor and having an administration that can be pressured into sensible actions. That may seem like nothing, but it's literally everything. It's an entire cabinet, Supreme Court justices, circuit judges, Department heads, etc etc.

Or we can take the easy road and discuss the "character" of someone who's a figurehead anyway. I prefer looking at what can be done in terms of policies, particularly regarding the existential threat we're facing.

Call me crazy.

If you want to challenge any of that, you better quote me or consider yourself corrected. — Baden

I don't recall referring to you once.

Bernie would make a better VP than I would. I humbly accept the nomination for POTUS.

Can you ease my pain? — Shawn

Either opiates or ibuprofen, depending on how bad your pain is.

I see the immediate issue and I understand your position, but the existential threat in my view is the two-party system itself not one or other party. That's where we differ.

It's true of course that we shouldn't let the rape charge overshadow the fact that Biden is also a racist pig who tried to extend school segregation and whose best friends were segregationists, and that he is responsible for ensuring hundrerds of thousands of students remain in debt and that he also ensured that hundrerds and thousands more - primairily blacks - would spend time languishing in jail and so on and so fourth. Oh and that he's senile and a war hawk and equally reponsible for murdering tens or hundrerds of thousands more in the Mid-East, while ruining millions of lives there too. I mean there's only so much space to mention this stuff each time.

At some point it just becomes a list and it's hard to convey just how much concrete suffering and grief Biden has been personally responsible for.

But also yes a probable rapist.

Bernie would make a better VP than I would. I humbly accept the nomination for POTUS. — Bitter Crank

:lol: The whole enchilada? Nice! Because the latest polls have you 9 points above Biden. Good news: you can campaign from your basement. Bad news: if you win, you have to move to a new house. And the previous owner really smelled up the place bad!

It's like with Obama, he superficially seems like a nice guy and the presumption is that that can't easily be faked. That's a cognitive speed bump that shouldn't be difficult to get past, but somehow it's persistent.

Trump is a cognitve speed bump too apparently. Or road block, rather. A literal trump card which ends all argument and ceases all rational thought. To anything one can say - "Bbb-b-buuttttt Trump!"

Trump will be remembered in history as the most disgusting, destructive thing that ever happened to our Republic. His supporters will be regarded as slightly below him on the ladder of loyalty to nation and and sanity.

And below them...will be the people who are doing what you are doing, Baden. That bottom group will be regarded as the true sludge. — Frank Apisa

From last time around: "Half his supporters are deplorables . . ."

That worked well.

Baden
10.1k
As for your friend Frank, Xtrix:

But if it were a choice between an accused pedophile Joe Biden and Trump...

...I would choose Biden before Trump in an instant.
— Frank Apisa

Any comment on that hypothetical? Do you see anything potentially wrong with making a credibly accused pedophile, President? The point here is to highlight the fact that at some point, the character of the person elected must matter. — Baden

Jesus H. Christ, Baden.

IF the choice is between Trump and Joe Biden...

...IF...

...(and that seems to be the choice that we will face here)...

...and "the character of the person" MUST MATTER...

...how is the hell can you find fault with me saying that I would choose Biden over
Trump in an instant.

In your hypothetical, one would be an ACCUSED (!) pedophile against whom almost no other credible charges have ever been made...and the other is a self-acknowledged shit pile of immorality against whom hundreds of charges...ranging from cheating people out of money to whoring...have been made? In addition, Trump is a crook, a whore-monger, and an ignorant, stupid, classless boor.

What is motivating you to argue what you seem to be arguing?

I see the immediate issue and I understand your position, but the existential threat in my view is the two-party system itself not one or other party. That's where we differ. — Baden

You see the immediate issue, yet still feel it's the two-party system that's the existential threat. Well that's a nice position to have, because that way we don't have to think very hard and it sounds so very outside the mainstream, but the fact remains: climate change is the existential threat. Is the two party system a problem? Certainly - a big problem. So's the electoral college, etc. If I had a magic wand, I'd change all that.

That's easy to say, but in reality we're very far from it. What we can do is consider our short term options - the only way to achieve any larger goal. As it is, we're given an unfortunate choice between an administration that has and will take us backwards, and one who will at the very least be open to activist pressure. That may be a small difference, but given we're the most powerful country in history, it matters all the same.

Voting third party or not voting at all under the guise of "Republicans and democrats are all the same" or "the two party system is corrupt" is obsolete.

A Trump and Biden administration are very different things, even conceding that they're both two factions of the corporate party. In these times, even the small differences matter.

In addition, Trump is a crook, a whore-monger, and an ignorant, stupid, classless boor. — Frank Apisa

More importantly, his environmental policies are systematically destroying the chances for organized human life in the future, at a time when scientists are telling us we don't have time to waste.

That's far more dangerous than telling people to drink bleach or yelling at reporters.

No need engaging in conversation that's irrelevant. I don't care about personality or about the person's history, since their mostly figureheads. Let them be tried and convicted. I care - as we all should - in what the policies are and how far we can push them in the correct direction (in this case, listening to climate science).

Engaging in speculation about character is superficial and easy. It matters to those who can't think their way out of a plastic bag - don't play that game.

Engaging in speculation about character is superficial and easy. It matters to those who can't think their way out of a plastic bag - don't play that game. — Xtrix

Good advice. I thank you for it.

But tough to follow.

Baden was essentially faulting me on the issue of not paying enough attention to the fact that "the character of the person elected must matter."

IN A DISCUSSION REGARDING JOE BIDEN VERSUS TRUMP!

Incredible to me. But I will attempt to heed your advice. Depends in part on the kind of new comments that come forth.

Engaging in speculation about character is superficial and easy. It matters to those who can't think their way out of a plastic bag - don't play that game. — Xtrix

There's some sadistic pleasure that comes with stomping on people's rainbows, though. That's probably just advancing a chain of abuse.

But notice that 100% of those who advocate rejecting Biden don't actually have a dog in the race. It's hard for me to get my head around that. I think the USA as a symbol must be more important than I tend to think. That's bound to be stressful.

That's bound to be stressful. — frank

I imagine what's stressful is not knowing the absolute fundamentals of politics and economics, such as what neoliberalism is, while at the same time trying to play the role of teacher to posters who are far more knowledgeable than you on just about everything. No amount of name-calling is going to make up for your deficiencies, frank.

You sound stressed.