thereby every disagreement is reduced to triviality. — Vaibhav Narula

I said no such thing.

On redefining. Stay flexible.

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

======

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of “atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

Regards
DL

You think your ethics are good. But my ethics are different from your ethics.
— christian2017

If push came to shove, I doubt that we would differ much.

If you want to go all over the place, issue wise, do it in P M.

Better still, start on O.P. on the morality of Christianity verses Gnostic Christianity.

I will clean your clock.

Genocidal satanic gods fall quite quickly.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

True Christians typically get their OPs taken down quickly on this forum and any secular forum. If you would like to have discussion in private that would be fine with me. Like i said you have your sets of morals that i disagree with. And i have morals that you disagree with. Like you believe abortion among other things is ok. I don't see the two of us seeing eye to eye.

Two Christians arguing about atheism, :rofl:

True Christians typically get their OPs taken down quickly on this forum and any secular forum. — christian2017

Would that this were so. Do they do that to True Scotsmen too?

I said no such thing.

On redefining. Stay flexible. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

You said no such thing but this is implied due to your being flexible because then anything goes!

You got your OP taken down because it was low quality not because you're a Christian. Be thankful we're allowing you to spout your ignorant religious bigotry concerning atheists on this thread.

And i have morals that you disagree with. Like you believe abortion among other things is ok. I don't see the two of us seeing eye to eye. — christian2017

Ok? No. I dislike any potential human being aborted.

What I think is ok is to let others make their own decisions on important parts of their lives. A free willed choice that many would not allow, while preaching that all should have freedom to think as they will.

What you think is ok is to impose your views on others without putting your money where your mouth is to insure the best end for those children. That is a non-lethal inquisition which is a Christian forte. That was the royal you Christians BTW.

All for the idol wordship of a genocidal moral monster god.

Regards
DL

You said no such thing but this is implied due to your being flexible because then anything goes! — Vaibhav Narula

Not anything, given the parameters I put.

Regards
DL

You got your OP taken down because it was low quality not because you're a Christian. Be thankful we're allowing you to spout your ignorant religious bigotry concerning atheists on this thread. — Baden

I would not pull anything, because the more atheists know about how their religious interlocutors think, the more ammo is provided to use against them.

Just reading the bible gave me my arguments, that they cannot win.

Knowing your enemy is good as it shows you their weakness.

Regards
DL

Knowing your enemy is good as it shows you their weakness. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

There's the problem.

BTW:

As a Gnostic Christian — Gnostic Christian Bishop

...

Just reading the bible gave me my arguments — Gnostic Christian Bishop

...what's a Gnostic doing relying on the bible for his arguments?

Two Christians arguing about atheism, :rofl:

True Christians typically get their OPs taken down quickly on this forum and any secular forum.
— christian2017

Would that this were so. Do they do that to True Scotsmen too? — Banno

I don't understand the alliteration.

That is a non-lethal inquisition which is a Christian forte. That was the royal you Christians BTW. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

can you rephrase that sentence. Like i said me and you have different ideas of right or wrong. In my opinion i have the moral high ground. Perhaps i'm wrong.

There's the problem. — InPitzotl

What is the problem with knowing their weaknesses and seeing them as them as my enemy?

Should I just ignore that, in the past, they used their inquisitions on us and in the present, they still think themselves justified in denying us our right to think as we please?

We are presently competing for moral supremacy, mostly, and with their inquisitor attitude, it is quite hard to have a friendly conversation. Reciprocity is fair play where I come from and should I show love when they show hate?

Should I love them as my enemies as Jesus preached, while also promising that when he returns he will kill everyone that does not accept him as King?

...what's a Gnostic doing relying on the bible for his arguments? — InPitzotl

I am not a Gnostic. There is no such thing. I am a Gnostic Christian.

We have never given up our brand name and have always used that label.

Regards
DL

Perhaps — christian2017

Perhaps?

How can you have the moral high ground while idol worshiping a genocidal god?

Would you agree that I have the moral high ground if I idol worshiped Hitler?

Hitler could not cure so killed. Your god can cure yet chooses to kill.

Which one is taking the moral low ground?

can you rephrase that sentence. — christian2017

I like it as is.

Regards
DL

Perhaps
— christian2017

Perhaps?

How can you have the moral high ground while idol worshiping a genocidal god?

Would you agree that I have the moral high ground if I idol worshiped Hitler?

Hitler could not cure so killed. Your god can cure yet chooses to kill.

Which one is taking the moral low ground?

can you rephrase that sentence.
— christian2017

I like it as is.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I disagree. I'm done talking to you or atleast responding to your original posts/forum topics. This is the case for various reasons. Have a great week Gnostic Christian Bishop. Perhaps you are right in all of your opinions but it doesn't benefit me to argue with you.

I don't understand the alliteration. — christian2017

Me neither. Perhaps the point pertains to puritans.

True Scotsman eat their porridge with just salt - that McTagger, he eats his with honey; hence he's not a true Scotsman.

Presumably those Christians who's OPs remain are not true christians.

I don't understand the alliteration.
— christian2017

Me neither. Perhaps the point pertains to puritans.

True Scotsman eat their porridge with just salt - that McTagger, he eats his with honey; hence he's not a true Scotsman.

Presumably those Christians who's OPs remain are not true christians. — Banno

oh ok.

Have a great week Gnostic Christian Bishop. — christian2017

...and here's that nauseating two-faced self-righteous passive aggressiveness modern Christian that we all love.

Have a great week Gnostic Christian Bishop.
— christian2017

...and here's that nauseating two-faced self-righteous passive aggressiveness modern Christian that we all love. — Banno

i think the same of you Banno.

take a look at what that guy who i was responding too ends every post he posts with. Note the bottom of all of his posts. Your kind of jumping in on the middle of a conversation.

take a look at what that guy who i was responding too ends every post he posts with. — christian2017

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm lost. Is that a Gnostic cypher we should know about?

take a look at what that guy who i was responding too ends every post he posts with.
— christian2017

Regards
DL
— Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm lost. Is that a Gnostic cypher we should know about? — Banno

this is the usual for you Banno.

Did you see the post you made that started this whole conversation?

Regards

Not DL

atheist religion. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Atheism is not a religion.

Why does religion exist? Because no one knows what happens when we die. Religion states if you believe (behave) you will be “rewarded“. Religion is used to manipulate the people. Keeping people ignorant allows those in power to control. I’m an atheist, and I look forward to death. To be released from a physical body. Everything is chemical, and even chemical and physic reactions are trapped by time. Personally I think when I die I will become E = mc2 (sorry, iPad doesn’t do power thingiies). Religion makes people fear death. Does religion make a person moral? No. When people find out I am an atheist, They are very surprised. They state “but you’re so nice”. Religion makes you think that you’re better than others. I don’t believe in that. Everything is connected. We are all chemical beings, made of stardust

Atheism is not a religion. — Gus Lamarch

Since following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion, atheism can be considered a religion, since atheists draws on philosophical ideologies to guide ideas, behaviors, and actions, like that of any religion. That is why atheist churches are called atheist churches.

Atheists Are Sometimes More Religious Than Christians
A new study shows how poorly we understand the beliefs of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular.

Americans are deeply religious people—and atheists are no exception. Western Europeans are deeply secular people—and Christians are no exception.

These twin statements are generalizations, but they capture the essence of a fascinating finding in a new study about Christian identity in Western Europe. By surveying almost 25,000 people in 15 countries in the region, and comparing the results with data previously gathered in the U.S., the Pew Research Center discovered three things.

First, researchers confirmed the widely known fact that, overall, Americans are much more religious than Western Europeans. They gauged religious commitment using standard questions, including “Do you believe in God with absolute certainty?” and “Do you pray daily?”

Second, the researchers found that American “nones”—those who identify as atheist, agnostic, or nothing in particular—are more religious than European nones. The notion that religiously unaffiliated people can be religious at all may seem contradictory, but if you disaffiliate from organized religion it does not necessarily mean you’ve sworn off belief in God, say, or prayer.

The third finding reported in the study is by far the most striking. As it turns out, “American ‘nones’ are as religious as—or even more religious than—Christians in several European countries, including France, Germany, and the U.K.”

“That was a surprise,” Neha Sahgal, the lead researcher on the study, told me. “That’s the comparison that’s fascinating to me.” She highlighted the fact that whereas only 23 percent of European Christians say they believe in God with absolute certainty, 27 percent of American nones say this.

America is a country so suffused with faith that religious attributes abound even among the secular. Consider the rise of “atheist churches,” which cater to Americans who have lost faith in supernatural deities but still crave community, enjoy singing with others, and want to think deeply about morality. It’s religion, minus all the God stuff. This is a phenomenon spreading across the country, from the Seattle Atheist Church to the North Texas Church of Freethought. The Oasis Network, which brings together non-believers to sing and learn every Sunday morning, has affiliates in nine U.S. cities.

Last month, almost 1,000 people streamed into a [Atheist] church in San Francisco for an unprecedented event billed as “Beyoncé Mass.” Most were people of color and members of the LGBTQ community. Many were secular. They used Queen Bey’s songs, which are replete with religious symbolism, as the basis for a communal celebration—one that had all the trappings of a religious service. That seemed completely fitting to some, including one reverend who said, “Beyoncé is a better theologian than many of the pastors and priests in our church today.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...theists-religious-european-christians/560936/

Regards
DL

Because no one knows what happens when we die. — Becky

Correct. Religions make the gullible victims to liars and con men. There should be a law against flagrant frauds.

Regards
DL

atheist churches — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I read your text and for sure these people are not in reality "atheists".

They are simply people that have lost faith on their previously established god, but still need a higher power in their lives. Is sad that a great majority of people still cling to this metaphysical concept of "afterlife","god", "absolute truths", because they're not self-suficient. They outsource their responsabilities because they think they are unable to "be".

Be it a religion or atheists as a group, I class them both as tribal groups. Each has an ideology that they cling to. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yes, tribal groups with ideologies they cling to, so far so good.

Though to quibble a bit we might recall that the vast majority of both believers and atheists are not clinging too tightly. In fact, most ignore their ideology most of the time.

Anyway, I don't quite see the point of labeling all ideologies as religions. Wouldn't that make the word religion essentially useless? If you seek a global term applying to all tribes, why not just use the word ideology? I could certainly agree atheism is an ideology.

following an ideology is a prerequisite of religion — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Necessity is not sufficiency.

They outsource their responsabilities because they think they are unable to "be". — Gus Lamarch

Nicely put.

Abdicating their responsibility for their sins and riding into heaven on their Jesus scapegoat is what Christianity is all about.

Strange how so called good Christian people follow such a vile and immoral ideology.

Regards
DL

Yes, tribal groups with ideologies they cling to, so far so good.

Though to quibble a bit we might recall that the vast majority of both believers and atheists are not clinging too tightly. In fact, most ignore their ideology most of the time.

Anyway, I don't quite see the point of labeling all ideologies as religions. Wouldn't that make the word religion essentially useless? If you seek a global term applying to all tribes, why not just use the word ideology? I could certainly agree atheism is an ideology. — Nuke

Not to the secular who seem to know what religions are.

Religio
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dedication from Roman Britain announcing that a local official has restored a locus religiosus[1]
The Latin term religiō, origin of the modern lexeme religion (via Old French/Middle Latin[2]) is of ultimately obscure etymology. It is recorded beginning in the 1st century BC, i.e. in Classical Latin at the beginning of the Roman Empire, notably by Cicero, in the sense of "scrupulous or strict observance of the traditional cultus". In classic antiquity, meant conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, or duty towards anything[3] and was used mostly in secular or mundane contexts.[4][5]

True that most of us do not follow our ideologies that well, but to deny that we all have one and are even born with a moral sense would be incorrect.

To your overall point, if we were to have the real stats for believers versus non-believers, I think the vast majority would be in the non-belief side.

Some places show 95% Christian, while only 5% go to church even once a year.

Somebody is lying.

Regards
DL