Maybe not an exit, just a split. Germany, Spain, and Italy with a few others on one side, France and some Nordic states on the other. — frank

There is zero chance of this happening.

One party. Two wings. Things are a little different in Europe, but it depends where you're at.

..Trump has had essentially no agency through the entire ordeal, poor thing, while simultaneously believing Trump has done the best he could possibly do... — boethius

I think most of us believe that 'nothing' is the best Trump could possibly do.

If you look past the dumb statements, what he has actually done in the end is probably not much different to what a Dem president would have done (although maybe they would have started earlier). It could have been a lot worse.

Americans deserve better than America:

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/the-new-coronavirus-threat-to-the-world-is-the-usa,13788

"The reality is that America’s response to the pandemic has been disastrous. The latest data shows that the USA:

• now has the world’s highest number of active coronavirus cases at 480,427, nearly five times higher than Italy, second with 96,877;
• now has more than 38% of the world’s active cases, despite having only 4.25% of the world’s population. This is up from 27.5% 12 days ago;
• has the highest total deaths, having overtaken Italy and Spain yesterday; and
• has a death rate at 61.8 per million citizens, up from just 12.3 at the end of March.

Most Americans are unaware of these facts, however, because the Trump Government is loudly proclaiming the opposite. ... There is no sign that the spread of the pandemic in the USA is slowing. Friday saw 33,752 new infections, 35.7% of the world’s new cases. This was the 18th daily increase in the last 20 days and the second-highest daily increase on record. Friday saw 2,035 more deaths, 29.2% of all deaths recorded across the globe. This was the 15th daily increase in the last 20 days and the highest daily increase on record."

Also the EU breaking up, or at least being totally, utterly restructured, might be quite a good thing. It's an anti-democratic enforcer of neoliberal debt politics that serves creditors over people and is the cause of massive misery all over the European continent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3csz781

^ Listen for a good explainer on what's happening with EU finances and CV atm.

As for Sweden, it is predictably getting utterly fucked: "Sweden has not only the highest rate of fatalities per capita, but also the total death toll is higher than that of all the other Nordic countries put together" as anyone with a pulse will have foreseen.

https://see.news/sweden-reports-worst-death-count-among-nordic-countries/

All roads lead to Rome (...?)

All roads lead to Rome (...?) — Evil

In this case, not many people in Rome (NYC) drive cars. A coworker has family there who report that people are still crowding onto the subway because they're all essential workers and it's the only way they can get to work. Nowhere else in the US is like that, thus we're all locked down way too early for a storm that probably won't get here for another couple of weeks. But how could we have known?

There is zero chance of this happening. — Baden

I know, I was just testing you.

That comment made no sense.

It wasn't for you

Then send a PM next time. Its a public forum remember?

I don’t think the union will survive this. I suspect some more exits.

t really goes to show that when some institutions are actually put to the test they reveal how effete and powerless they really are. It makes you wonder why people put so much faith in them.

It's probably best if you don't stray into areas you don't understand.

News of the EU collapsing are grossly exaggerated.

The Netherlands and other EU countries refused to subsidise economic bailouts of Italian companies if Italy refused to get its debt and economic policies in order. All of them offered to give money to cover medical costs without any strings attached.

Italy has flaunted the EU budgeting rules for years and it has no buffer as a consequence. It needs aid because it hasn't adhered to EU guidelines for years and this causes the high interest rates on Italian bonds. Coupled with the high debt it cannot afford bailing out companies like the Netherlands and Germany can. So that problem is of their own making.

If they want money for economic support, the other EU countries are still prepared to do that but not without strings attached.

The idea that solidarity means you can't demand they finally start adhering to previous agreed rules is false and in fact would be disastrous for the economic union in the long run as it would create a precedent for no member state to ever follow agreed rules.

Nowhere else in the US is like that, thus we're all locked down way too early for a storm that probably won't get here for another couple of weeks. But how could we have known? — frank

That's good news. An earlier reaction means less lives will be lost and less damage to the local economy. They have a chance of getting test-and-trace programs in place and perhaps avoiding a storm altogether.

States with relatively few confirmed cases, unlike hot spots including New York, Louisiana and Michigan, still have an opportunity to avert widespread transmission, Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield said in an interview. — U.S. States Prepare Test-and-Trace Programs to Reopen Their Economies

The CDC is fabricating statistics to inflate the Covid-19 death toll. It's official, the state is deceiving the public to fuel the hysteria. It's a definite conspiracy...now is the time to begin panicking.

Us deaths from covid-19 totaled less than 2 percent of all deaths in March.

https://mises.org/wire/march-us-deaths-covid-19-totaled-less-2-percent-all-deaths

the CDC is instructing medical staff to report deaths as COVID-19 deaths even when no test has confirmed the presence of the disease. In a Q and A on death certificates published by the CDCon March 24, the agency advises:

"COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II. [emphasis in original.]"

This is extremely likely to inflate the number of deaths attributed to COVID-19 while pulling down deaths attributed to other influenza-like illnesses and to deaths caused by pneumonia with unspecified origins.  This is especially problematic since we know the overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths occur in patients that are already suffering from a number of other conditions. In Italy, for example, data shows 99 percent of COVID-19 deaths occurred in patients who had at least one other condition. More than 48 percent had three other conditions. Similar cases in the US are now likely to be routinely reported simply as COVID-19 cases.

White House COVID-19 task for member Dr. Deborah Birx has confirmed it is now standard practice to count all death of persons "with" COVID-19 as deaths caused by COVID-19. 

Or else what?

Then send a PM next time. Its a public forum remember? — Benkei

Ok. Will do.

It's official, the state is deceiving the public to fuel the hysteria. It's a definite conspiracy...now is the time to begin panicking. — Merkwurdichliebe

But that's just what they want! They're a step ahead of you!

lmao

Guess the conspiracy nuts are out now.

But that's just what they want! They're a step ahead of you! — Andrew M

That was meant to be mockingly ironic, given the ridiculous degree of panic that is currently consuming the globe. And the state is a step ahead of everyone, otherwise it couldn't get away with running shit like it does.

As for Sweden, it is predictably getting utterly fucked — StreetlightX

Yet the UK, France, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands have more cases and more deaths per million, so Sweden isn't here the hardest hit in Europe by any means. And as has been said a lot of times, you have to look how they perform when the other Nordic countries have to loosen their lock downs. If there comes that second wave.

News of the EU collapsing are grossly exaggerated. — Benkei

But it's a genre that some people really like!

And as has been said a lot of times, you have to look how they perform when the other Nordic countries have to loosen their lock downs. If there comes that second wave. — ssu

What? The whole point is to note the difference in outcomes that follow from differences in approach. This is as stupid as staying that you can't compare Stalins gulags with countries without gulags because you have to wait until Stain no longer has gulags. A stupid point to make.

It's official, the state is deceiving the public to fuel the hysteria. It's a definite conspiracy...now is the time to begin panicking. — Merkwurdichliebe

Panic not! Just follow these instructions.

:lol:

The only thing evident is that those places that made a serious effort on containment or a lock down before the pandemic hit in earnest have avoided the worst. And the worst hit regions are those where the pandemic has spread under the radar before any serious steps were taken. Just compare San Francisco to New York. Bay area implemented the shelter in before the first corona-virus death and the now death toll in San Francisco is 14. A bit lower than in New York.

However, it's not idiotic to think that the shelter in restrictions have to be lifted sometime. So what happens then, if we don't have the vaccine? The disease isn't so deadly that it will kill itself. A second wave might hit in the fall and basically the corona-virus might stay with us just like the common flu. Hence the case for "herd immunity" hasn't been show yet to be totally wrong. It's likely a wrong move at the start, perhaps, but we don't know yet. Just look at how China hasn't gotten over it:

Having largely stamped out domestic transmission of the disease, China has been slowly easing curbs on movement as it tries to get its economy back on track, but there are fears that a rise in imported cases could spark a second wave of COVID-19.

A total of 108 new coronavirus cases were reported in mainland China on Sunday, up from 99 a day earlier, marking the highest daily tally since March 5.

Imported cases accounted for a record 98. Half involved Chinese nationals returning from Russia’s Far Eastern Federal District, home to the city of Vladivostok, who re-entered China through border crossings in Heilongjiang province.

What this reply has to do with your initial post is beyond me. Probably because it is entirely irrelevant.

It has to do with the fact that Sweden goes with one approach and time will tell how that will work out.

That time is now, and it's being told in all its deadly repercussions. The bodies will not wait for you to spin your tidy little yarn.