Trump has shifted the status quo toward xenophobia, racism, and celebrating inequality, and that will only get worse in a second term. And I seriously doubt Bernie will be able to actually do any more than any other candidate. None of the ambitious policies he pushes are likely to pass. On the plus side, he will be a voice. In my book, getting a voice is not worth the risk of a 2nd term for Trump.The US needs not only a political shift but a cultural one as well and that's not going to happen with another status quo candidate. — Benkei
Trump has shifted the status quo toward xenophobia, racism, and celebrating inequality, and that will only get worse in a second term. — Relativist
That judgment depends on what your priorities are.Also, not to nit-pick, but Trump didn't do shit. — Benkei
What happens to them in the likely event that he's ineffectual?And Bernie isn't going to change anything about it. But his political base might if they realise that winning or losing isn't the end of the fight. He seems to be the only candidate that has such a politically motivated base at this time. — Benkei
In my book, getting a voice is not worth the risk of a 2nd term for Trump. — Relativist
That means there's a (100-x)% chance the status quo will change in the opposite direction.
A risk-based approach means Bernie is the only viable candidate. — Benkei
You are giving weight to changing the "status quo" and it seems you are saying Bernie, and only Bernie can possibly do that.If Bernie runs, even if it were more likely that he would lose to Trump, there's still a good chance Bernie will win. Let's call that chance x%.
That means there's a (100-x)% chance the status quo will change in the opposite direction.
A risk-based approach means Bernie is the only viable candidate. — Benkei
Well ok then. Been to the supermarket lately? Seen the bounteous harvest in the produce department, the shelves full of all kinds of wondrous goods, the meat and fish sections filled with good stuff to eat? Maybe you'd prefer the stores in Venezuela or the Soviet Union or the aforementioned Cuba. — fishfry
But please, tomorrow as you go through your day, look around at the abundance around you. The bustling commerce, the well-stocked store shelves. Ask yourself if you'd rather live here or in Bernie's Cuba.
LOL. I can't believe you actually said that. Are you joking? You have no idea of the actual, literal wealth of the US -- spread throughout society, though certainly terribly unequal -- relative to the rest of the world? — fishfry
Yes, we all agree the economy has worked very well for them, and they continue to prosper. The system that's been in place has been a state-capitalist system, rigged for the wealthy who can lobby for legislation, subsidies, contracts, tax breaks, and bailouts from the government (our tax money). Bernie does indeed want to destroy that. I agree with him.
— Xtrix
All those people driving to and from work on the freeway, you want to shut down all that commerce. How many would starve under your plan? Are you insane? You seriously want to shut down the US economy? If you did that, ONLY the 1% would survive. They already have their bunkers. The rest of us working stiffs would be crushed in a depression that would make the 1930's look like the good old days. — fishfry
The middle class MUST pay for such enormous spending programs because the rich have lawyers and the poor have no money. This is very basic. — fishfry
Because it's the agenda of Donald Trump. It's every policy that's come out of the Trump administration: deregulation, privatization, corporate tax cuts, etc.
— Xtrix
No, I disagree. Trumps policies on trade and immigration go directly against neoliberalism. He hasn't started any new wars and he's trying to get us out of the ones we're in. Of course he's been rolled by the likes of Bolton and other warmongers. It's damned hard to fight the establishment alone. But his big overarching politics are directly opposed to the neoliberal consensus of the past thirty years. — fishfry
So you either don't know what you're talking about, or voted in favor of neoliberalism.
— Xtrix
Trade, immigration, war. — fishfry
Anyone who sleepwalks through their American life and doesn't see the incredible material abundance all around them is not one to talk about others being confused. — fishfry
2020, I don't think that's going to happen. But that's what they said about Trump in 2016 and Bernie's 2020 campaign is weirdly parallel. Not being taken seriously then the whole party panicking to stop him and the moderates unwilling to get out of each other's way. The parallels are eerie. Anything could happen. — fishfry
Will Bernie and Elizabeth Warren be the “Progressive Pair”? — 0 thru 9
Bloomberg's a cunt: he'll (probably) drop out - Wednesday(?) after conceding that his +half billion dollars barely bought him any delegates - and declare for Biden (all but guaranteeing a brokered convention & Superdelegate coronation). :mask: — 180 Proof
No one is advocating anything like the USSR or Cuba or Venezuela. No one. That's imaginary. — Xtrix
Why you keep invoking Cuba or our supermarkets is beyond me. If you can't see that this is sheer stupidity, maybe it's not worth it talking to you. — Xtrix
None of this has to do with my comment, that the wealth in the US has been concentrated to the top, especially the 1% (it's actually closer to 1/10 or 1/100 of 1%). — Xtrix
Stop arguing against imaginary opponents. — Xtrix
Outside of your information bubble, they don't exist. If all you know how to do is respond to straw men and imaginary opponents, that's OK. Just let me know so I don't waste my time trying to explain anything. — Xtrix
Yes, we all agree the economy has worked very well for them, and they continue to prosper. The system that's been in place has been a state-capitalist system, rigged for the wealthy who can lobby for legislation, subsidies, contracts, tax breaks, and bailouts from the government (our tax money). Bernie does indeed want to destroy that. I agree with him. — Xtrix
Who said shutting down commerce? Try reading again what I wrote. Bernie wants to destroy a rigged system that distributes the wealth of this country to the top 1/10th of 1%, and I agree with that. I think such a system which produces such enormous inequality should be dismantled or at least heavily corrected. This is the exact opposite of what you're saying -- it's in FAVOR of the working and middle classes. It has nothing to do with "shutting down the American economy." Nothing. Nor did I ever say that. Nor has Bernie said that. It's a ridiculous statement that, once again, exists only in your imagination. — Xtrix
It's very easy to tax wealth. All we need is the political will, which Bernie has. The working and middle classes will not pay for it, the wealthiest Americans and the corporate sector, however, will. — Xtrix
Because it's the agenda of Donald Trump. It's every policy that's come out of the Trump administration: deregulation, privatization, corporate tax cuts, etc. — Xtrix
That's not true. Neoliberalism has little to do with wars. It has far more to do with increasing the military budget (to line the pockets of defense contractors), which Trump has done. — Xtrix
He has done nothing on trade except re-named NAFTA and started a stupid trade war with China which changed literally nothing. — Xtrix
His proposal of building a wall will go down as one of the stupidest ideas in history. — Xtrix
As for war -- yes, he wants to stay out of war. — Xtrix
You're confused. Sorry for the accuracy. Try to stop arguing against your imagination. — Xtrix
True. And being accurate about what's really happening in the current administration and about Bernie's actual policies is all the more important. I highly recommend making an effort to do so. — Xtrix
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