Oh really now. Would that include Hassan Al Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Yussuf Al-Qaradafi, its current head cleric? — Nobeernolife

These clerics are not as close as you or me to what happened in the 1930ies and 1940ies in German-occupied Europe. They would never advocate things like "All the Gypsies have to die". Come on, on what grounds would they be able to justify such a thing as clerics?

For a starters, in Islam you cannot do something like "kill all the Gypsies", because that is incompatible with confiscating their girls, whom you cannot kill, because that is utmost contrary and incompatible with the true biological goal of males fighting in the mating season, i.e. "war".

The Nazis were a regime of hate, about sheer hate only, and run by born haters, who in their hate even managed to overrule very basic biological principles, such as through their policy of Rassenschande. The Quran is totally opposed to that.

I am quite sure that these clerics just lifted a few sentences out of context and then reused them in another conflict in order to score quick and easy political points. In fact, you'd better quote exactly what they have said, because you may even be seriously misrepresenting their views.

These clerics are not as close as you or me to what happened in the 1930ies and 1940ies in German-occupied Europe. They would never advocate things like "All the Gypsies have to die". — alcontali

I don´t know what you are trying to say. I am pointing to the deep connection between islamic ideology and nazism, and you keep writing obscure denials.

I don´t know what you are trying to say. I am pointing to the deep connection between islamic ideology and nazism, and you keep writing obscure denials. — Nobeernolife

So, according to you the inspiration for Mein Kampf was the Quran? Or something like that?

Islam is a book. All information about Nazism is also a book. What would according to you be the deep connection between these two books?

So, according to you the inspiration for Mein Kampf was the Quran? Or something like that? — alcontali

I don´t know what the inspiration for Mein Kampf was, and I said nothing about that.
I was pointing out to you that contrary to what you claimed, Hitler admired islam, that influential muslim figures did and do support nazism, and that that nazism is popular in the muslim world even today, There is no need to misquote me.

I don´t know what the inspiration for Mein Kampf was, and I said nothing about that.
I was pointing out to you that contrary to what you claimed, Hitler admired islam, that influential muslim figures did and do support nazism, and that that nazism is popular in the muslim world even today, There is no need to misquote me. — Nobeernolife

Both Hitler and Himmler had a soft spot for Islam. Hitler several times fantasized that, if the Saracens had not been stopped at the Battle of Tours, Islam would have spread through the European continent—and that would have been a good thing, since “Jewish Christianity” wouldn’t have gone on to poison Europe. Christianity doted on weakness and suffering, while Islam extolled strength, Hitler believed. Himmler in a January 1944 speech called Islam “a practical and attractive religion for soldiers,” with its promise of paradise and beautiful women for brave martyrs after their death. “This is the kind of language a soldier understands,” Himmler gushed.

Surely, the Nazi leaders thought, Muslims would see that the Germans were their blood brothers: loyal, iron-willed, and most important, convinced that Jews were the evil that most plagued the world. “Do you recognize him, the fat, curly-haired Jew who deceives and rules the whole world and who steals the land of the Arabs?” demanded one of the Nazi pamphlets dropped over North Africa (a million copies of it were printed). “The Jew,” the pamphlet explained, was the evil King Dajjal from Islamic tradition, — The Nazi Romance with Islam

Ok, I see what Hitler apparently said about Islam and how he tried to endear himself with the Muslim community. Fine, I get that.

Concerning what the Muslim community thought about Hitler:

The Nazis’ anti-Jewish propaganda no doubt attracted many Muslims, as historian Jeffrey Herf has documented, but they balked at believing that Hitler would be their savior or liberator. Instead, they sensed correctly that the Nazis wanted Muslims to fight and die for Germany. As Rommel approached Cairo, Egyptians started to get nervous. They knew that the Germans were not coming to liberate them, but instead wanted to make the Muslim world part of their own burgeoning empire. In the end, more Muslims wound up fighting for the Allies than for the Axis. — The Nazi Romance with Islam

As I suspected, the Muslims did not trust him, and they were obviously right. Even though they did not know the nitty-gritty details of Hitler's true nature, they were suspicious of his intentions. Now, the author suggests that the Egyptians may have felt some kind of loyalty to the British, but I seriously doubt that too.

You see, some Muslims may have fallen for Hitler's propaganda. I am quite sure that some must have done that. Hitler was undoubtedly excellent at shit talking about the British and their colonial politics. However, we can all sense that you should not trust this kind of persons without thoroughly investigating their character first. Hitler's character was utmost ugly. Just read what he wrote in Mein Kampf and how he spewed hate on an endless list of enemies. He never said anything good about anybody. He was just hating and hating and hating. I am confident that Muslims who read his venom understood that you cannot ever trust a person like that; and according to the author, they clearly didn't.

You see, some Muslims may have fallen for Hitler's propaganda. — alcontali

Not just some muslims. The Mufti of Jerusalem was in Germany during WW2, advising Hitler on the Jewish issue and raising muslim troops for the Nazis. And Mein Kampf is a bestseller in the muslim world even today. I think the source you found tries to whitewash that a bit.

https://thepeoplescube.com/images/images_working/Hitler_Muslims/Mufti_Hitler.jpg

Not just some muslims. The Mufti of Jerusalem was in Germany during WW2, advising Hitler on the Jewish issue and raising muslim troops for the Nazis. And Mein Kampf is a bestseller in the muslim world even today. I think the source you found tries to whitewash that a bit. — Nobeernolife

The Mufti of Jerusalem was obviously trying to create alliances left and right with a view on preventing the creation of the apartheidsstate of Israel. That does not mean in any fashion that he subscribed to the Nazi ideology, which is simply not compatible with Islam. It is also obvious that it is rather the racist apartheidsstate of Israel that is ideologically close to Nazism.

You see, Islamic law is a complete formal system with rules concerning morality. It is not possible to just mix it haphazardly with system-less bullshit such as nazism or communism. At best, it is possible to lift single, individual concerns, one by one, from such ideology and then figure out in what way Islam would agree to address such concern. So, don't count on any serious mufti or any other alim to join that kind of parties. He just won't do it.

The ability to know both what is and what ought to be, the essence of what we call morality — TheMadFool

Splendid idea! So all we need to know now is what is and more particularly, what ought to be. Especially because we are talented at knowing what the former is from experience, but pathetic at understanding our future. Do you have any ideas?

The Mufti of Jerusalem was obviously trying to create alliances left and right with a view on preventing the creation of the apartheidsstate of Israel. That does not mean in any fashion that he subscribed to the Nazi ideology, which is simply not compatible with Islam. — alcontali

There was no concept of Israel at the the time. However, there was the ongoing holocaust, which the mufti admired. And he expressed his point of view clearly:

"The friendship between Muslims and Germans has become much stronger because National Socialism corresponds to the Islamic world view in many respects. The points of contact are: Monotheism and unity of leadership. Islam as an organizing force. The struggle, the community, the family and the offspring. The relationship to the Jews. The glorification of work and creation."
Muhammed Amin Al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, Berlin, October 1944

There was no concept of Israel at the the time. However, there was the ongoing holocaust, which the mufti admired. And he expressed his point of view clearly:

"The friendship between Muslims and Germans has become much stronger because National Socialism corresponds to the Islamic world view in many respects. The points of contact are: Monotheism and unity of leadership. Islam as an organizing force. The struggle, the community, the family and the offspring. The relationship to the Jews. The glorification of work and creation."
Muhammed Amin Al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, Berlin, October 1944 — Nobeernolife

In an earlier period, there was not particularly much of a political mutual understanding, because Nazi Germany was expelling Jews out of Germany who then ended up in Palestine:

Nazi policy for solving their Jewish problem until the end of 1937 emphasized motivating German Jews to emigrate from German territory. The Gestapo and the SS inconsistently cooperated with a variety of Jewish organizations and efforts (e.g., Hanotaiah Ltd., the Anglo-Palestine Bank, the Temple Society Bank, HIAS, Joint Distribution Committee, Revisionist Zionists, and others), most notably in the Haavurah Agreements, to facilitate emigration to Mandatory Palestine.[48] This precipitous increase in the Jewish Palestinian population stimulated Palestinian Arab political resistance to continued Jewish immigration, and was a principal cause for the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. The Mufti opposed all immigration of Jews into Palestine. — Wikipedia on Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world

In fact, at that point in time, the Nazis were much more interested in collaborating with Zionist organizations than with the Mufti. It is only in 1938 that Germany's policy became aligned with the Mufti, when Germany finally agreed to stop expelling Jews to Palestine:

In 1938 the German policy toward the Jewish homeland in Palestine appears to have substantially changed, as indicated in this German Ministry of Foreign Affairs note from 10 March 1938:

The influx into Palestine of German capital in Jewish hands will facilitate the building up of a Jewish state, which runs counter to German interests; for this state, instead of absorbing world Jewry, will someday bring about a considerable increase in world Jewry's political power.[51] — Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world

So, in 1944, the Nazis had already switched from collaborating with Zionist organizations to siding with the Mufti on the issue of expelling German Jews to Palestine. The Nazis had stopped sending European Jews to Palestine by then. Any positive declaration by any of the parties involved, can only be understood in that light.

If America is the "great Satan", and it was lawful for Mohammed to attack whole populations, then why wasn't September 11 justified, according to Islam? Was Osama bin Laden not worthy? Or was it those who did the attack who were not worthy of heaven and killing??

The Jews attacked whole populations in the Old Testament. Christians think Jesus stopped this, but they have no evidence Jesus didn't kill anybody. Organized religions stemming back hundreds and thousands of years are burdened with these problems. Mormonism wants to take over the West. Protestants say they have the Spirit. Everyone running around they hold the future. If Nietzsche was so dumb how did he predict these conundrums?

In fact, at that point in time, the Nazis were much more interested in collaborating with Zionist organizations than with the Mufti. — alcontali

You are not a historian, and your selected Wikipedia snippets do not change the ideologial similarities between Islam and Nazism, as outlined by Ali Al Husseini. The Mufti was also busy recruiting Islamic Nazi SS regiments, in particular in Yugoslavia, who were busy murdering Christians and opponents of the Nazis. The holocaust is praised islamist worldwide today, if you are unaware of that, good for you, but it does not change the reality.

Splendid idea! So all we need to know now is what is and more particularly, what ought to be. Especially because we are talented at knowing what the former is from experience, but pathetic at understanding our future. Do you have any ideas? — Michael Lee

I have little to no idea how the world should be but to pain with a broad brush how about making hedonism, a "better" version of it, a first principle; after all even animals seek pleasure and avoid pain. A hedonistic first principle would unite all animal life and that reminds me of a the garden of Eden - a place of peace and happiness where all living things live in harmony. The next step would be to bring other kingdom, plants, into the fold of morality and that will be difficult; we have to eat something and to do that we have to kill. Perhaps synthetic food isn't too far off in the future.

1) If the world was created from nothing, you can't infer anything about the creator. So you can't say he is on yours or anyone else's side. Schopenhauer was right

2) Muslims are simply using The Secret to try to get into a sexual paradise, like many people do, excepting Christians

3) The no boundary hypothesis and the doctrine that there is no time without motion create a scenario where there is no need for a creator.

4) Islam is the meaning some people find given to them and which they impose on themselves and others within this self-contained universe. Just because a religion gives you meaning, this does not mean that it is the meaning of the universe.

Islam is the meaning some people find given to them and which they impose on themselves and others within this self-contained universe. — Gregory

That is the problem right there. I have no issue with "religion", in fact I tend to think having a religion is healthy for a societ. The problem with islam is that it is a "poligion", a political ideology with a religious cover, complete with political system and legal system --- and not a political and legal system that any person who looks at it objectively would want to live under.

Can islam be stripped of its Sharia and political ambitions and turned into a pure religion? That is an open question. Majid Navas thinks so, other like Bassam Tibi are sceptical.

You are not a historian, and your selected Wikipedia snippets ... — Nobeernolife

I am not interested in figuring everything that you are not, because I do not consider you personally to be a sufficiently interesting subject for that purpose. By the way, should I be flattered by the fact that you seem to have nothing better to do than analyzing and studying my person?

In fact, I rarely object when pretty, young women do that in the physical world, but in my opinion, it does not make sense to do that here online because, in the end, there is no convenient way to act on it.

The Mufti was also busy recruiting Islamic Nazi SS regiments ... — Nobeernolife

Well, apparently he was lying in bed with the devil for reasons of political expediency, assuming that the end would justify the means. Some people will end up making Faustian pacts. So? Would that be the first time in the history of mankind? And now, feel free to tell me something interesting instead.

Well, apparently he was lying in bed with the devil for reasons of political expediency, assuming that the end would justify the means. — alcontali

No, the mufti explained clearly why he like Nazism, and that affinity is inherent in islam and continues today. Consider that the holocaust is widely considered Allah`s good work, that muslims should continue today. So, no Faustian pact here, but congruent ideologies.

No, the mufti explained clearly why he like Nazism, and that affinity is inherent in islam and continues today. Consider that the holocaust is widely considered Allah`s good work, that muslims should continue today. So, no Faustian pact here, but congruent ideologies. — Nobeernolife

You very well know that any elusive connection between Islam and Nazism is much more of a stretch than between Zionism and Nazism.

Zionism and Nazism are obviously much closer to each other, since they are both a pile of very racist, system-less bullshit. The core of both ideologies is unadulterated racism.

On the other hand, if you listen to even the most extreme and radical Muslims, such as Osama bin Laden or so, or even to some people in the ISIS crowd, have you ever heard them referring to Nazi literature?

Have you ever heard them making the kind of racist remarks that both Nazis and Zionists routinely make?

Racism is not part of Islam, while it is the core foundation of Nazism and Zionism.

You very well know that any elusive connection between Islam and Nazism is much more of a stretch than between Zionism and Nazism. — alcontali

No, I do not know that, and the claim is quite absurd. Zionism is the claim for a territory for Jews. Nazism is a totalitarian ideologys that includes a rabid hatred of Jews, which it shares with islam (as Ali Al Husseini pointed out).

Racism is not part of Islam, while it is the core foundation of Nazism and Zionism. — alcontali

Well, that depends how you define "racism". The Koran is chock-full of hate against Jews, something it shares with Nazism. That why Al Husseini called it gingerly "The relationship to the Jews." The Nazi Jew hatred is probably founded in Hitlers crazy race theory, while the islamic Jew-hatred is based on the scripture.
The result is the same, however, which is why we have the similarity.

No, I do not know that, and the claim is quite absurd. Zionism is the claim for a territory for Jews. Nazism is a totalitarian ideologys that includes a rabid hatred of Jews, which it shares with islam (as Ali Al Husseini pointed out). — Nobeernolife

Well, that depends how you define "racism". — Nobeernolife

The General Assembly,

Recalling its resolution 1904 (XVIII) of 20 November 1963, proclaiming the United Nations Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and in particular its affirmation that "any doctrine of racial differentiation or superiority is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous" and its expression of alarm at "the manifestations of racial discrimination still in evidence in some areas in the world, some of which are imposed by certain Governments by means of legislative, administrative or other measures",

Recalling also that, in its resolution 3151 G (XXVIII) of 14 December 1973, the General Assembly condemned, inter alia, the unholy alliance between South African racism and zionism,

Taking note also of resolution 77 (XII) adopted by the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the Organization of African Unity at its twelfth ordinary session, held at Kampala from 28 July to 1 August 1975, which considered "that the racist regime in occupied Palestine and the racist regime in Zimbabwe and South Africa have a common imperialist origin, forming a whole and having the same racist structure and being organically linked in their policy aimed at repression of the dignity and integrity of the human being", — 'United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379, adopted on 10 November 1975 by a vote of 72 to 35 (with 32 abstentions), 'determine[d] that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination' .

And this, despite the fact that in the documents prepared for the rendezvous in Geneva, apart from a few minor improvements, a basic approach has been maintained equating Israel with a racist country rather than a democracy. — 2009 World Conference against Racism

If there is one thing that the Zionist apartheidsstate of Israel fundamentally shares with Nazism, it is their well-attested racism. Seriously, how many times does the apartheidsstate of Israel need to be indicted for their disgusting racism before they will finally acknowledge the despicable error of their ways?

at the Zionist apartheidsstate of Israel fundamentally shares with Nazism, it is their well-attested racism. — alcontali

Whatever Israel does or does not do is irrelevant to the similarity between islam and nazism, which I was pointing out to you.
Has it ever occurred to you that the hysterical hatred of Israel by the muslim world is precisely because the hatred of Jews is part of islamic doctrine?

Whatever Israel does or does not do is irrelevant to the similarity between islam and nazism, which I was pointing out to you. — Nobeernolife

It is perfectly relevant to the uncanny similarity between Zionism and Nazism. They are both undeniably racist.

Has it ever occurred to you that the hysterical hatred of Israel by the muslim world is precisely because the hatred of Jews is part of islamic doctrine? — Nobeernolife

It is not part of Islamic doctrine.

You are deliberately confusing the utter dislike of the racist apartheidsstate of Israel with an imaginary non-existent antisemitism that only exists in your fantasy and not in the Middle East.

Furthermore, you conveniently keep ignoring that the holocaust took place in Europe and not in the Middle East.

As I have mentioned earlier, the holocaust could simply not have taken place in the Middle East or in any other Muslim-majority country because the Nazi policy of die Endlösung der Jüdenfrage is in violation of a long list of legal clauses in the Quran.

The reason why the holocaust could and did take place in Europe, is because multiple, elaborate racist ideologies were commonplace in that era, very similar to Zionism, while an already substantially weakened Christianity turned out to be no barrier against pseudo-scientific racism and against scientific genocidal extermination procedures of unwanted populations.

It is perfectly relevant to the uncanny similarity between Zionism and Nazism. — alcontali

I do not see that. "Zionism" simply refers to the concept of a Jewish state. It is not a political system inn itself, it certainly does not resemble Nazism, since the Nazis wanted to erase the jews.

It is not part of Islamic doctrine. — alcontali

It absolute is, which everybody who has read the Korann and Haddiths knows, and which islamist leaders have clearly stated
.

It absolute is, which everybody who has read the Korann and Haddiths knows, and which islamist leaders have clearly stated — Nobeernolife

Your opinion is not even necessarily shared by other Jews. If they expected to be mishandled by the Muslims, why did the Sephardi Jews flee to the Muslim Ottoman Empire?

Eastern Sephardim comprise the descendants of the expellees from Spain who left as Jews in 1492 or prior. This sub-group of Sephardim settled mostly in various parts of the Ottoman Empire, which included areas in the Near East (West Asia's Middle East such as Anatolia, the Levant and Egypt), the Balkans in Southeastern Europe. They settled particularly in European cities ruled by the Ottoman Empire including Salonica in what is today Greece, Constantinople which today is known as Istanbul on the European portion of modern Turkey, and Sarajevo in what is today Bosnia and Herzegovina. — Wikipedia on Sephardi Jews

If the Muslims were full of hatred of the Jews, why on earth did these Sephardi Jews prefer to flee to an Islamic country? They could also have fled from Spain and Portugal to the north, for example, to France, Germany, or Britain, but they chose not to.

You want to depict the Muslim opposition to the racist apartheidsstate of Israel as a form of racism, but your story simply does not add up.

Is United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 also a form of antisemitism in your view? What about the 2009 World Conference against Racism, which voted to maintain the decades-old designation of 'racist country' for the Zionist apartheidsstate of Israel? Are they also antisemitic?

Your opinion is not even necessarily shared by other Jews. If they expected to be mishandled by the Muslims, why did the Sephardi Jews flee to the Muslim Ottoman Empire? — alcontali

LOL, since when am I Jewish? That is news to me. Yes, Jews were persecuted by various rulers in the Middle ages, and they might actually have been relatively safer in the Ottoman empire as Dhimmis in the Millet system. That does not mean they were not discriminated there.

None of this invalidates the similarity between islam and nazism, for example in the rabid antisemitism, which you (unsurprisingly) also express here.

At one point, you wrote:

the hatred of Jews is part of islamic doctrine — Nobeernolife

And now you write:

they might actually have been relatively safer in the Ottoman empire — Nobeernolife

I rest my case.

I rest my case. — alcontali

What case?? I never said that Jews where never in history persecuted by others than nazis and muslims. That is a strawman.
That does not change the fact that nazi and islamic have a great affinity. As incidentally, many of co-religionists quite openly admit. Why do you think you find Mein Kampf on islamic websites like this? Because the islamists so much disagree with Nazism??

http://islam-radio.net//historia/hitler/mkampf/pdf/eng.pdf

What case?? — Nobeernolife

You are saying that the Jews "might actually have been safer" with people whom you portray as being full of "hatred of Jews".

If that view is not contradictory, then I really don't know anymore what is.

You keep conveniently ignoring that the Holocaust took place in Europe, and that this genocidal, organized mass murder was an exponent of European ideology and European behaviour. As I mentioned earlier, in terms of Islamic morality, this kind of behaviour is despicable.

As far as I am concerned, you have simply failed in your attempt to shift the blame for what happened right in the centre of Europe onto the Middle East, which was not involved, and certainly not in charge, and which, on the contrary, had even made the effort to protect European Jews from earlier occurrences of horrific persecuting in Europe.

You are saying that the Jews "might actually have been safer" with people whom you portray as being full of "hatred of Jews".
If that view is not contradictory, then I really don't know anymore what is. — alcontali

No, I did not talk about "people". I talked about the ideology, just like the Mufti of Jerusalem did.
Try to argue without misquoting people.

What do you think about Mein Kampf being published as reading material on islamic websites?

Jesus said in the Bible (so this is Christian dogma) that a steward once hired men to do a job and they agreed on a wage. Latter in the day other men came in and joined the working gang. At the end of the day the steward gave everyone the same amount of pay. The ones who had worked longer complained. "I gave you what we agreed" said the steward. "Are you envious that I was generous.".

My question: does this factor in with Islamic law or is it wrong by Islamic law? Why is it wrong to give people charity but not right for a Western government to do this? Where is the line to be drawn among political systems, so that it is clear which bodies can take and give out money and which ones can't?