"There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them, with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms."

Exactly.

"There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them, with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms."

Exactly — NOS4A2

:rofl:

How does “social ownership” fit into your definition? Will you say that me paying taxes means I own the post-office?

How does “social ownership” fit into your definition? Will you say that me paying taxes means I own the post-office? — NOS4A2

You have use of public education, the fire department, police, public roads, postal service, Medicaid, Medicare, social security. Etc.

What do you think "public" means?

:brow:

As I said earlier... the term "socialism" being bandied about - as a negative - in the current political landscape is hollow.

Cannot wait for the national debates between Bernie and Trump.

You have use of public education, the fire department, police, public roads, postal service, Medicaid, Medicare, social security. Etc.

Because I pay for their service, not because I own them.

How does “social ownership” fit into your definition? — NOS4A2

Social ownership is any of various forms of ownership of the means of production in socialist economic systems, encompassing public ownership, employee ownership, cooperative ownership, citizen ownership of equity,[1] common ownership and collective ownership.[2]

Historically social ownership implied that capital and factor markets would cease to exist under the assumption that market exchanges within the production process would be made redundant if capital goods were owned by a single entity or network of entities representing society,[3] but the articulation of models of market socialism where factor markets are utilized for allocating capital goods between socially owned enterprises broadened the definition to include autonomous entities within a market economy. Social ownership of the means of production is the common defining characteristic of all the various forms of socialism.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_ownership

What do you think "public" means?

What do you think ownership means?

Which public entities, lands and institutions do you own?

All of them.

All of them.

I dare you to say that to the police officer the next time you get pulled over.

The police motto is To serve and protect. It’s meant to be that way. Just because police forces across the country have been corrupted to mainly harass the poor, doesn’t mean that they aren’t supposed to be public servants.

Because I pay for their service, not because I own them. — NOS4A2

Did you so much as glance at the wiki on social ownership?

The police motto is To serve and protect. It’s meant to be that way. Just because police forces across the country have been corrupted to mainly harass the poor, doesn’t mean that they aren’t supposed to be public servants.

It doesn't mean the public owns the police either.

Did you so much as glance at the wiki on social ownership?

I read your quotes, yes. Are you also going to claim that you own the police, fire departments, public parks and the military?

But they’re not a private police force, like a security detail would be. They’re public.

But they’re not a private police force, like a security detail would be. They’re public.

I'm not disputing that at all.

They are for the social benefit. At least they are supposed to be. In reality, they work for the business owners and wealthy for the most part.

They are for the social benefit. At least they are supposed to be.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Well, then it doesn’t sound like you would agree that Sanders is indeed a socialist because he calls these parts of our system “socialism”. He wants to make the power companies public, too. He wants union rights, subsidizing clean energy instead of oil and gas as they do now, higher marginal tax rates, Medicare for all, free public colleges, student loan forgiveness, etc. He says he’s going to pay for all of this mainly by raising taxes on the wealthy, a wealth tax, and modest tax increases on the middle class. I say he’s dreaming, but God bless him! I don’t disagree with him.

Well, then it doesn’t sound like you would agree that Sanders is indeed a socialist because he calls these parts of our system “socialism”. He wants to make the power companies public, too. He wants union rights, subsidizing clean energy instead of oil and gas as they do now, higher marginal tax rates, Medicare for all, free public colleges, student loan forgiveness, etc. He says he’s going to pay for all of this mainly by raising taxes on the wealthy, a wealth tax, and modest tax increases on the middle class. I say he’s dreaming, but God bless him! I don’t disagree with him.

He's a self-described socialist, has backed the Socialist Worker's party, has applauded bread lines, etc. So though I agree his policies may not be technically socialist he has certainly promoted socialism and has referred to himself as one. I'll take him at his word, but you're right.

I read your quotes, yes. — NOS4A2

No, I mean the entire wiki article, and maybe twice or three times. You might even have to do a little research beyond the wiki to understand how the word "ownership" is being used.

Are you also going to claim that you own the police, fire departments, public parks and the military? — NOS4A2

I already told you you're not worth talking to. But I don't mind referring you to educational materials.

To help you sound less like...

...a fucking dimwit. — creativesoul

Particularly in the United States, the term "socialization" has been mistakenly used to refer to any state or government-operated industry or service (the proper term for such being either nationalization or municipalization). It has also been incorrectly used to mean any tax-funded programs, whether privately run or government run.

Particularly in the United States, the term "socialization" has been mistakenly used to refer to any state or government-operated industry or service (the proper term for such being either nationalization or municipalization). It has also been incorrectly used to mean any tax-funded programs, whether privately run or government run.

That closes the debate. You've won! :lol:

That closes the debate. You've won! :lol:

Thanks :ok: .

Ok, take a deep breath. Before I present my questions, here's my premise. I will prove, by way of the simple questions that are forthcoming, that your reasoning ( treating like cases likely, and different cases differently) is highly suspect and fundamentally flawed.

Now, taking it a step further and I suggest you put your big-boy pants on here, I will demonstrate that individuals like yourself, who have right-wing extremist views (and you are welcome to prove me wrong there) are not only dangerous to our democracy, but lack the common sense required to fully grasp what it means to have a good conscience, accountability, impartial ideology, and objective views and principles necessary to prosecute public policy.

So, basically, just like your Dumpertrumper behaves, I will spare the euphemisms and political correctness to directly attack you whenever the opportunity presents itself. For example, you seemingly are evading some of the preliminary questions already, and as such, you will get no hall pass from me. Not only will you be required to answer them, you will be required to have thick-skin. And by the same token, you are free to attack me in whatever method that suits you. You are even welcome to submit personal attacks if that makes you feel good, just like your boss does. Are you brave enough to take the challenge?

Ok, take a deep breath. Before I present my questions, here's my premise. I will prove, by way of the simple questions that are forthcoming, that your reasoning ( treating like cases likely, and different cases differently) is highly suspect and fundamentally flawed.

Now, taking it a step further and I suggest you put your big-boy pants on here, I will demonstrate that individuals like yourself, who have right-wing extremist views (and you are welcome to prove me wrong there) are not only dangerous to our democracy, but lack the common sense required to fully grasp what it means to have a good conscience, accountability, impartial ideology, and objective views and principles necessary to prosecute public policy.

So, basically, just like your Dumpertrumper behaves, I will spare the euphemisms and political correctness to directly attack you whenever the opportunity presents itself. For example, you seemingly are evading some of the preliminary questions already, and as such, you will get no hall pass from me. Not only will you be required to answer them, you will be required to have thick-skin. And by the same token, you are free to attack me in whatever method that suits you. You are even welcome to submit personal attacks if that makes you feel good, just like your boss does. Are you brave enough to take the challenge?

How dramatic. I can't wait.

Excellent , we will start with the questions you are avoiding...be back shortly..

Credit where credit is due: Barr is does something right...

Barr blasts Trump's tweets on Stone case: 'Impossible for me to do my job': ABC News Exclusive
In an exclusive interview, Attorney General Bill Barr told ABC News on Thursday that President Donald Trump "has never asked me to do anything in a criminal case” but should stop tweeting about the Justice Department because his tweets “make it impossible for me to do my job.”