I am my highest authority, judge and guide — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Do you have some reason to believe that this renders you unusual in some significant way?

I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I don't have anything against confidence borne of true knowledge but given that we all have blind spots I suggest you take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect.

So what if you're being hypnotized, drugged, manipulated, or in some other way duped? — Artemis

So what if any of us are? We are duped and hope we learned our lesson.

FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

Regards
DL

Ah. That explains a lot. — Banno

It explains a lot more if you are not up to it. Child.

Regards
DL

Do you have some reason to believe that this renders you unusual in some significant way? — Arne

Not unusual that I know of. It just says that I am not as gullible as some and do not make a good sheeple.

I find sheeple unusual as they seem to intentionally put their tribal affiliations ahead of their morals. I do not. I see my duty as to make my tribe better.

In the supernaturally based religions, I think they voluntarily go into intellectual and moral dissonance and that is why the mainstream gods are such genocidal pricks, that they somehow see as good.

That is unusual, dishonest and stupid.

Regards
DL

I don't have anything against confidence borne of true knowledge but given that we all have blind spots I suggest you take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect — TheMadFool

I just put this up that answers this notion of error or being duped nicely. I hope.

FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

Regards
DL

I just put this up that answers this notion of error or being duped nicely. I hope.

FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Right.

I see my duty as to make my tribe better. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I suspect every sheeple would say the same.

Right. — TheMadFool

You make my case.

Regards
DL

I suspect every sheeple would say the same. — Arne

Not by the definition of the term.

If it was so, they would reject the genocidal god.

Regards
DL

I do believe that there is an actual sense of "legitimacy" of authority, relating to the fact that every action we do ultimately results in an overall set of feedbacks from the universse (cybernetics). So if one is acting with corrupt authority, then those feedbacks will be corrective in nature, either destabilizing the system that enables corrupt authority or directly impacting the corrupt agent, undermining the extent to which his intentions are accurately accomplished.

The kind of "authority" you are talking about seems to me no more than the radical freedom to do whatever one wishes. Sure, we do have that freedom, but of what use is it? The scope and scale of our abilities ultimately depends on our embracing and adopting external systems, which are rule-governed. In so doing, we necessarily accept the laws of those systems, or suffer the negative effects of attempting to "bend the rules".

Pantagruel — Pantagruel

Nicely put. I think I agree.

The scope and scale of our abilities ultimately depends on our embracing and adopting external systems, which are rule-governed. — Pantagruel

Yes, but we can oppose and our freedom to change poor rules and have all profit.

Regards
DL

So what if any of us are? We are duped and hope we learned our lesson — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That kinda puts a wrench in the whole "being the highest judge and authority" bit.

That kinda puts a wrench in the whole "being the highest judge and authority" bit. — Artemis

Are you suggesting that a highest judge and authority cannot make a mistake?

Have we ever had a perfect ideology or leader to follow?

You might want to check our history before positing such an idea.

Regards
DL

Have we ever had a perfect ideology or leader to follow? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That just means there might not be such a thing as a highest leader.

Are you suggesting that a highest judge and authority cannot make a mistake? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I'm suggesting that in circumstances when someone else is causing your behavior and or manipulating you, then you cannot be considered the highest authority in that moment.

I'm suggesting that in circumstances when someone else is causing your behavior and or manipulating you, then you cannot be considered the highest authority in that moment. — Artemis

Sure you can if you are making the choice, wrong or not, to accept and make your own whatever is being sold to you.

Doing the best we can with what we have at all points in time does not mean that we won't get screwed by a good con man, be he religious or political or just a charlatan doctor.

Regards
DL

Sure you can if you are making the choice, wrong or not, to accept and make your own whatever is being sold to you. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

If you're being manipulated, lied to, hypnotized, drugged, etc. YOU are not making any choices on your own.

If you're being manipulated, lied to, hypnotized, drugged, etc. YOU are not making any choices on your own. — Artemis

It is still your choice, although it is being intentionally impaired.

It is not the others choice, it is only his suggestion, fortified by the products you mention.

Regards
DL

It is still your choice, although it is being intentionally impaired.

It is not the others choice, it is only his suggestion, fortified by the products you mention. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That makes no sense.

That makes no sense. — Artemis

It does to me.

If I hold a gun to your head and threaten to shot you if you do not hand over your cash, whose choice is being exercised when you hand it over? Whose brain makes your hand move?

Mine or yours?

Yours.

It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move.

Regards
DL

lol

Mine or yours?

Yours.

It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

So... Your argument is based on someone else eradicating the near infinity of usual choices you have, narrowing it down to a miserly 2, but at least you still got to choose between them? Ha! Some "highest authority."

On a side note: since choosing death leaves you without cash too... I'm not sure what the "choice" in your example really revolves around.

It is always best to bring issue to their largest and smallest as a proof of concept. That KISS.

You are a poor loser of this debate because you cannot refute the logic.

Come back when you finish sulking.

Regards
DL

On a side note: since choosing death leaves you without cash too... I'm not sure what the "choice" in your example really revolves around. — Artemis

It was a hypothetical, goof.

Regards
DL

It was a hypothetical, goof. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

My main point stands uncontested.

You make my case.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I just want to say that Descartes may have approved of you since, in effect, he was sure of only one truth - his own indubitable existence. Surely then, you, just as he was of himself, must be your highest authority.

If I hold a gun to your head and threaten to shot you if you do not hand over your cash, whose choice is being exercised when you hand it over? Whose brain makes your hand move?

Mine or yours?

Yours.

It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Per Sartre, even under torture, the victim determines the exact moment at which he chooses to submit to the torture....

My main point stands uncontested. — Artemis

Not in your mind. It is in the more discerning ones.

Regards
DL

I just want to say that Descartes may have approved of you since, in effect, he was sure of only one truth - his own indubitable existence. Surely then, you, just as he was of himself, must be your highest authority. — TheMadFool

As an esoteric ecumenist, I take out what I want and approve of in all thinking system's, even his, and discard the rest. If all he believed in was his existence, I would have discarded that notion.

We are alone, but we are all in this together.

I think he was indicating by his statemen that, as other great minds before him thought, that when looking at any issues, one should try to approach it without biases. Do not be for or against was how the ancients said it. That is really tough to do.

My thinking system is composed of many things from many sources. I am thus my own authority unless I wish to give it up to the many who formed my thinking system.

As keeper of my files, I am the only authority that I recognize.

Regards
DL

Per Sartre, even under torture, the victim determines the exact moment at which he chooses to submit to the torture.... — Pantagruel

I agree.

Regards
DL