• Arne
    796
    I am my highest authority, judge and guideGnostic Christian Bishop

    Do you have some reason to believe that this renders you unusual in some significant way?
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?Gnostic Christian Bishop

    I don't have anything against confidence borne of true knowledge but given that we all have blind spots I suggest you take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    So what if you're being hypnotized, drugged, manipulated, or in some other way duped?Artemis

    So what if any of us are? We are duped and hope we learned our lesson.

    FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

    We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    Ah. That explains a lot.Banno

    It explains a lot more if you are not up to it. Child.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    Do you have some reason to believe that this renders you unusual in some significant way?Arne

    Not unusual that I know of. It just says that I am not as gullible as some and do not make a good sheeple.

    I find sheeple unusual as they seem to intentionally put their tribal affiliations ahead of their morals. I do not. I see my duty as to make my tribe better.

    In the supernaturally based religions, I think they voluntarily go into intellectual and moral dissonance and that is why the mainstream gods are such genocidal pricks, that they somehow see as good.

    That is unusual, dishonest and stupid.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    I don't have anything against confidence borne of true knowledge but given that we all have blind spots I suggest you take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effectTheMadFool

    I just put this up that answers this notion of error or being duped nicely. I hope.

    FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

    We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

    Regards
    DL
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    I just put this up that answers this notion of error or being duped nicely. I hope.

    FMPOV, we are all always doing the best we can with whatever we have. Be it intelligence or other skill or ability.

    We are all always striving for the best possible end. Right?

    Regards
    DL
    Gnostic Christian Bishop

    Right.
  • Arne
    796
    I see my duty as to make my tribe better.Gnostic Christian Bishop

    I suspect every sheeple would say the same.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    Right.TheMadFool

    You make my case.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    I suspect every sheeple would say the same.Arne

    Not by the definition of the term.

    If it was so, they would reject the genocidal god.

    Regards
    DL
  • Pantagruel
    3.2k
    I do believe that there is an actual sense of "legitimacy" of authority, relating to the fact that every action we do ultimately results in an overall set of feedbacks from the universse (cybernetics). So if one is acting with corrupt authority, then those feedbacks will be corrective in nature, either destabilizing the system that enables corrupt authority or directly impacting the corrupt agent, undermining the extent to which his intentions are accurately accomplished.

    The kind of "authority" you are talking about seems to me no more than the radical freedom to do whatever one wishes. Sure, we do have that freedom, but of what use is it? The scope and scale of our abilities ultimately depends on our embracing and adopting external systems, which are rule-governed. In so doing, we necessarily accept the laws of those systems, or suffer the negative effects of attempting to "bend the rules".
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    PantagruelPantagruel

    Nicely put. I think I agree.

    The scope and scale of our abilities ultimately depends on our embracing and adopting external systems, which are rule-governed.Pantagruel

    Yes, but we can oppose and our freedom to change poor rules and have all profit.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    So what if any of us are? We are duped and hope we learned our lessonGnostic Christian Bishop

    That kinda puts a wrench in the whole "being the highest judge and authority" bit.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    That kinda puts a wrench in the whole "being the highest judge and authority" bit.Artemis

    Are you suggesting that a highest judge and authority cannot make a mistake?

    Have we ever had a perfect ideology or leader to follow?

    You might want to check our history before positing such an idea.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    Have we ever had a perfect ideology or leader to follow?Gnostic Christian Bishop

    That just means there might not be such a thing as a highest leader.

    Are you suggesting that a highest judge and authority cannot make a mistake?Gnostic Christian Bishop

    I'm suggesting that in circumstances when someone else is causing your behavior and or manipulating you, then you cannot be considered the highest authority in that moment.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    I'm suggesting that in circumstances when someone else is causing your behavior and or manipulating you, then you cannot be considered the highest authority in that moment.Artemis

    Sure you can if you are making the choice, wrong or not, to accept and make your own whatever is being sold to you.

    Doing the best we can with what we have at all points in time does not mean that we won't get screwed by a good con man, be he religious or political or just a charlatan doctor.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    Sure you can if you are making the choice, wrong or not, to accept and make your own whatever is being sold to you.Gnostic Christian Bishop

    If you're being manipulated, lied to, hypnotized, drugged, etc. YOU are not making any choices on your own.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    If you're being manipulated, lied to, hypnotized, drugged, etc. YOU are not making any choices on your own.Artemis

    It is still your choice, although it is being intentionally impaired.

    It is not the others choice, it is only his suggestion, fortified by the products you mention.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    It is still your choice, although it is being intentionally impaired.

    It is not the others choice, it is only his suggestion, fortified by the products you mention.
    Gnostic Christian Bishop

    That makes no sense.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    That makes no sense.Artemis

    It does to me.

    If I hold a gun to your head and threaten to shot you if you do not hand over your cash, whose choice is being exercised when you hand it over? Whose brain makes your hand move?

    Mine or yours?

    Yours.

    It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

    It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    Mine or yours?

    Yours.

    It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

    It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move.
    Gnostic Christian Bishop

    So... Your argument is based on someone else eradicating the near infinity of usual choices you have, narrowing it down to a miserly 2, but at least you still got to choose between them? Ha! Some "highest authority."

    On a side note: since choosing death leaves you without cash too... I'm not sure what the "choice" in your example really revolves around.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    It is always best to bring issue to their largest and smallest as a proof of concept. That KISS.

    You are a poor loser of this debate because you cannot refute the logic.

    Come back when you finish sulking.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    On a side note: since choosing death leaves you without cash too... I'm not sure what the "choice" in your example really revolves around.Artemis

    It was a hypothetical, goof.

    Regards
    DL
  • Artemis
    1.9k
    It was a hypothetical, goof.Gnostic Christian Bishop

    My main point stands uncontested.
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    You make my case.

    Regards
    DL
    Gnostic Christian Bishop

    I just want to say that Descartes may have approved of you since, in effect, he was sure of only one truth - his own indubitable existence. Surely then, you, just as he was of himself, must be your highest authority.
  • Pantagruel
    3.2k
    If I hold a gun to your head and threaten to shot you if you do not hand over your cash, whose choice is being exercised when you hand it over? Whose brain makes your hand move?

    Mine or yours?

    Yours.

    It is my threat, but you chose to live instead of die and have your hand give your cash.

    It is never my choice as I cannot make your hand move.
    Gnostic Christian Bishop

    Per Sartre, even under torture, the victim determines the exact moment at which he chooses to submit to the torture....
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    My main point stands uncontested.Artemis

    Not in your mind. It is in the more discerning ones.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    I just want to say that Descartes may have approved of you since, in effect, he was sure of only one truth - his own indubitable existence. Surely then, you, just as he was of himself, must be your highest authority.TheMadFool

    As an esoteric ecumenist, I take out what I want and approve of in all thinking system's, even his, and discard the rest. If all he believed in was his existence, I would have discarded that notion.

    We are alone, but we are all in this together.

    I think he was indicating by his statemen that, as other great minds before him thought, that when looking at any issues, one should try to approach it without biases. Do not be for or against was how the ancients said it. That is really tough to do.

    My thinking system is composed of many things from many sources. I am thus my own authority unless I wish to give it up to the many who formed my thinking system.

    As keeper of my files, I am the only authority that I recognize.

    Regards
    DL
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    Per Sartre, even under torture, the victim determines the exact moment at which he chooses to submit to the torture....Pantagruel

    I agree.

    Regards
    DL
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