You didn't answer my question. How do you know Jesus said that?

FYI, I do not believe there exists an "immortal soul". — Relativist

Good. There is no evidence or proof of such a concept.

I do not even know if a supernatural Jesus ever lived and I attribute all that the scribes put into his mouth as their own biased words.

This is more like what I think of the history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgvws0ZYUE

Regards
DL

Some Christians do keep Kosher considering the way many animals were killed at the turn of the 19th Century is concerned. Kosher laws were somewhat but not drastically altered in the New Testament. Essentially Kosher laws did not change in the New Testament except for being allowed to eat Pork (no blood though) and Lobster. Feel free to educate yourself on this before assuming you are all that knowledgable in the matter.

Hate is indeed a human trait. So is love, and we default to love as our first instinct for survival. The hate is passed up from the bigoted peers.

IOWs, the religious feed the hate to maintain their tribal differences.

A poor religious trait seen in the worst of religions and mostly absent in the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom instead of imaginary supernatural gods.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

To some extent i agree with that. There is alot to be desired in modern Christianity.

A poor religious trait seen in the worst of religions and mostly absent in the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom instead of imaginary supernatural gods. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Well i disagree to a large extent that they are imaginary. Theres no use arguing over that aspect.

As for hate, anger and hate are a spectrum. Its alright to defend the lives of our children. To not care for our children shows that we have an apathetic soul.

To some extent i agree with that. There is alot to be desired in modern Christianity. — christian2017

Like what, given that they are still a homophobic and misogynous and refuse to grant all souls equality the way Jesus did?

Regards
DL

Well i disagree to a large extent that they are imaginary. Theres no use arguing over that aspect.

As for hate, anger and hate are a spectrum. Its alright to defend the lives of our children. To not care for our children shows that we have an apathetic soul. — christian2017

Correct. Only fools will argue for a supernatural realm that they can know nothing about.

As to children, and here I am looking at the world in total and the U.N. 10 year warning,

We are clearly showing as ma species that we will not defend the lives of our children as we are giving them a corrupted environment to live and likely die in.

That not caring for our children shows that we collectively have apathetic souls.

Regards
DL

What religion or philosophy grants all souls equality?

Correct. Only fools will argue for a supernatural realm that they can know nothing about.

As to children, and here I am looking at the world in total and the U.N. 10 year warning,

We are clearly showing as ma species that we will not defend the lives of our children as we are giving them a corrupted environment to live and likely die in.

That not caring for our children shows that we collectively have apathetic souls.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

brb

Feel free to educate yourself on this before assuming you are all that knowledgable in the matter. — christian2017

Jeez! All I said was, " I don't think any Christians today keep kosher. ". When someone says, "I think...", that's a good sign they aren't claiming to be "all that knowledgable". But thanks for setting me straihht on that issue. Next time I'll say "most Christians do not keep kosher."

A. fuckin'. Men, schop! :clap: :clap: :clap: Hallelujah. — 180 Proof

Thank you! You highlighted and emphasized all the major points too. I like that :grin: .

thats fair.

Correct. Only fools will argue for a supernatural realm that they can know nothing about.

As to children, and here I am looking at the world in total and the U.N. 10 year warning,

We are clearly showing as ma species that we will not defend the lives of our children as we are giving them a corrupted environment to live and likely die in.

That not caring for our children shows that we collectively have apathetic souls.

Regards — Gnostic Christian Bishop

What do you mean die in? If a child lives to be 80 or even 22 that is different then if they die at 10 or 5. Not on my watch. Over my dead body.

YW. Just wanted to make sure our resident Bible/Qur'an-thumpers & woo-pimps didn't miss those points of yours which I think are worth emphasizing. :up:

The religious ignore that God chose Jesus to die even before the earth was created. That's scripture.

When they want some other scenario, they are too stupid to recognize that to change things would derail their god's master plan. That paradox is present in Adam's sin. Christians call it our fall, yet sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

Seems god planned our fall yet Christians blame man for it. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

It's a very convenient setup (for god). All the good there is in the world is part of god's plan and all the bad that there is is our fault inspite of the fact that everything must be god's doing.

The Jewish court which sentenced Jesus had no temporal powers. The Romans were the ones who crucified Jesus, probably because they considered him as a potential rebel. Suggest you study the history of the Jewish rebellion against the Roman rule. — Jacob-B

I'm familiar with that. I was referring to the evolution of story of Pilate's sentencing Jesus to death. Over time, blame is increasingly shifted from Pilate to that Jewish public. A key point is that only in Gospel of Matthew (which came later than Mark and used Mark as a source) does Pilate wash his hands, and declare that he is innocent of Jesus’ blood, while the Jewish crowd (all the crowd, not just the leaders) cry out those infamous words, “His blood be upon us and our children” (Matt 27:25). That sort of thing is a plausible seed for eventual anti-Semitism.

Nevertheless, the evolution of anti-Semitism is more complicated than that. A few years ago, I read John Gager's "The Origin of Anti-Semitism", and he lays out a good bit of historical context to support his theory for developing anti-Semitism. The above is a small factor, but moreso is the competition that grew between Jews and Christians in the second and third centuries. I honestly don't remember a lot of detail, since its been awhile, but it does seem an excellent source for anyone interested in learing about the earliest roots of anti-Semitism.

What religion or philosophy grants all souls equality? — christian2017

Gnostic Christianity for one. We have tied equality righteousness.

Here is the older explanation from Gnostic sources.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

I see the same in the bible but Christians do not believe in the equality of souls the way we do.

Regards
DL

What do you mean die in? — christian2017

I mean, ----- look at our eco system.

Would you like to see and live in what is coming, in terms of extinction and ecological hardship for yourself?

Not likely and here we are collectively continuing to make things worse.

Regards
DL

He calls all to repentance. You must be reborn to enter the kingdom of God. God's foreknowledge and man's freewill aren't mutually exclusive.

He calls all to repentance. — matt

I did not hear the genocidal Yahweh repent for his own mass murders and genocides so my repenting for being and doing exactly what god created me to be and do I do not repent of. I had no free will, which is confirmed by the bible.

You must be reborn to enter the kingdom of God. — matt

I have been. Have you? Where did Jesus say the kingdom was? Right here on earth. Right?

We are in heaven, as Jesus said, but most, like you, do not see it. I do.

Regards
DL

God's foreknowledge and man's freewill aren't mutually exclusive. — matt

Your own scriptures say that we do not have a free will to believe or not. The bible says god decides for us.

Here is the longer version.

---------------

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then the is is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

everything must be god's doing. — TheMadFool

Christianity preaches that using a scapegoat is moral and ok.

If god is in our image, he too will use a scapegoat and be as evil as humans who do not take responsibility for their own actions.

God says. The invention is defective, burn it.

I say, god makes defective souls and then blames them for being defective. Burn Yahweh.

Regards
DL

Darn brown-skinned, tree-hugging, bleeding-heart, long-haired, sandal-wearing hippie! — Artemis

"Old Sam, he couldn't belielve he and Jesus war both Jews... he a Jew? how can be? With long hair, and a Mexican name?" "I said, hey, Abe... take a walk on the Kosher side... I said, Hey, Abe, take a walk down Fairfax... etc." -- Gefilte Joe and the Fish, "Take a Walk on the Kosher Side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyO18WIztts

And the lyricsh for those who are hasidically challenged:
Yakov quit the westside AZA (*Aleph Zadik Aleph).
Went 'cross town and joined YMCA (*Young Men's Christian Assoc).
Soon bacon and pork he began to enjoy.
Took off his yarmulke, the yid was a goy.
I said hey Yakov? Take a walk on the kosher side.
I said hey nudnik! Take a walk down Fairfax...
And the members of Hadassah go...
(harmonizing)

Herschel was shocked when he heard the news.
He couldn’t believe that he and Jesus both were Jews.
He said "how can we be the same
when this longhair’s got a Mexican name?"
I said hey Hersch! Take a walk on the kosher side.
I said hey kid! Take a walk down Fairfax!

Abe Horovitz wanted to star in picture shows
so he straightened his hair, capped his teeth, and fixed his nose.
Changed his name to Lash LaRue,
and talked of the pride of being a Jew.
I said hey Abe? Take a walk on the kosher side.
I said hey whatever your name is, take a walk down Fairfax.

Little Katz was taking his bar mitzvah lesson.
Across the street a shiksa was undressin'.
Then one day to the rabbi's surprise
Katz was showin' her where he was circumcised.
I said hey Katzie...take a walk on the kosher side
Hey, nudnik? Take a walk down Fairfax.

Burned from my personal copy for historical purposes only. And commentary... please with the commentary, already!

My mother's sister, an old Jewish woman, now dead, taught me the art of Jewish humour, which is wise and sometimes totally self-depracating. (That's a lingual improvement just for show; (forgot the word that covers that meaning); it was started as "decrapating", but some learned and better-knowing people of political correctness adjusted the consonants some centuries ago.)

She even tought me the song, a modern one, big in the nineteen-seventies that went something like this:

"The Tamils hate the Hindus, and the Hindus hate the Muslims, and the Christians hate the heathens, and the Heathens hate the buddhist... but everybody hates the Jews."

I find this extremely funny, but only until, of course, when I actually encounter someone or some expression that spreads hatred against Jews. Then my blood boils.

But the modern Jew-hatred can be traced back to Israel as being the darling of the USA. There are tons of reasons why people hate the external politics of the USA and by extension, the state of Israel.

And of course Israel was teetering on the verge of extinction in the Yom Kippur war, and it should have perished if you only count the military power that came agaisnt it. By some miracle, and because they were defending their homeland, they repelled the attackers.

And every Jew is vehemently blood-thirsty when it comes to the question of Israel. It is understandable if you think that a nation had no homeland for two thousand years, then they got it back, and all of a sudden some want to take it away from them yet still again.

Then there is the Palestinian and resident Arab population that hate the Israelis and vice versa. For this I don't blame the Palestinians alone. Israel ought to have behaved better there. And now that relationship has developed into an eternal, never-ending feud, not war, not terrorism, but blood feud. Both parties believe in the truth of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", and therefore they are forever knocking each other's eyes and teeth out, most times verbatim, and other times only figuratively.

This is an untenable situation that has been created for Israel and for the Palestinians, by both sides. And both sides have the right and the wrong reasons to fight. And it can't be stopped now.

And of course the world always sides with the underdog. Israel is the guilty one now, is everyone's opinion now. But in 1972 Israel was the saint, because it was the underdog then.

You just can't win, can you. "You" meaning the general you.

Christianity preaches that using a scapegoat is moral and ok. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Don't get me started on scapegoats. I'm not surprised that the only facial hair that suits me is a goatee.

Burn Yahweh. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I wouldn't do that. Poor guy. He's taking a lot of flak in this day and age and if he does exist I admire his self-control. No global flood seems to be on the cards.

Speaking for myself, I'm going to take care of my goatee and contemplate on the nature of scapegoatism, probably until I die in some horrible way. Do you think a goatee would look good on a corpse?

Gnostic Christianity for one. We have tied equality righteousness.

Here is the older explanation from Gnostic sources.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

I see the same in the bible but Christians do not believe in the equality of souls the way we do.

Regards
DL — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Gnostics don't believe that. Your parsing words.

Globalism is a bigger issue than the environment.

Do you think a goatee would look good on a corpse? — TheMadFool

Well trimmed, sure.

Regards
DL

Gnostics don't believe that. Your parsing words. — christian2017

We are Universalists with a heaven but no hell.

Only a loser of a god would have to destroy his own works for not doing as programmed.
Even worse when scriptures say that only a few of us are worthy of his genocidal and infanticidal standards.

I take it you did not follow my link and are quite happy with your genocidal prick of a god.

Nice that you can ignore his satanic morals and ethics.

Regards
DL

Globalism is a bigger issue than the environment. — christian2017

I do not think we can cooperate enough as a world against climate change without globalizing more. One goes with the other.

Regards
DL

Well trimmed, sure. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Thanks. Anyway, to get back to where I digressed, I don't think there are such things as defective souls. Are you suggesting that some are just born bad or good? Where does that leave responsibility for one's own actions? Would you say you're responsible for your looks, something totally beyond your control? No. Similarly, if souls could be defective or flawless then there really is no point in differentiating the good from the bad in any non-trivial sense.