That it's not for me. — Purple Pond

Icarus.

I suggest a healthy wallow or two ...

Philosophy has taught me that in the center of our discourse there are innumerable numbers of separations between us that require levels of patience, love, and commitment to the truth that probably none of us can subtend.

Philosophy has taught me that none of us knows what the hell we are talking about! :razz:

"Ask not what philosophy can do for you, but what you can do for philosophy." John F Kennedy.

"Ask not what philosophy can do for you, but what you can do for philosophy." John F Kennedy. — unenlightened

:cool:

I learn from - am reminded daily by - philosophizing

• that 'philosophy' is, in effect, the daily discipline of Fools in life-long recovery from Folly via reflective praxes such as contemplating, critiquing, even shaming, public as well as private Foolishness (i.e. idiocy (e.g. vide Žižek, Zapffe) or stupidity (e.g. vide Kahneman, Welles, Cipolla) or bullshit (e.g. vide Frankfurt, Taleb) or ...);

• that medicine for the Healthy (i.e. one who knows that s/he doesn't know what s/he doesn't know ~ 'sad Socrates') more often than not poisons the Sick (i.e. those who don't know that they don't know that they don't know ... ~ 'satisfied Swine');

• that the world - whatever is the case - consists in nothing but answers to which we must supply - re-search/create - the right questions;

• that how to discern the important from the interesting is interesting precisely because it's profoundly important;

• that nothing ultimately matters, including also that it ultimately doesn't matter that 'nothing ultimately matters';

&

Life can be about a myriad of noble quests... But the meaning of life is peace. As evidenced by every major divine prophet that has ever been.

Buddha - Don't put your value in possessions. Peace
JC - If someone strikes you, turn the other cheek. Peace
Prophet Mohammed - It's OK to fight if the fight is noble. Peace.

Peace is the meaning of life. It's only when a man looks to interpret the word of God that you get abominations and genocide. You get Protestants Vs Catholics, Jihad and all that other contemptible nonsense.

Life can be about a myriad of noble quests... But the meaning of life is peace. — PhilCF

No, it's 42.

Sounds like a Maslonian mantra: Life is both a discovery and uncovery of Being. — 3017amen

Maslow + Heidegger.

Peace is the meaning of life. — PhilCF

Peace is the meaning of death. One rests in peace. The meaning of life is strife.

The meaning of life is strife. — unenlightened

No, it's 42.

"And what I say three times is true." _ The Bellman.

Just the place for a Snark!

my story with philosophy - having wasted my high school years on electric guitar and acid, got into Uni on the strength of a quaint and long-discontinued custom called the Adult Entrance Exam. Old fashioned exam room at unisyd, pencil and paper. The main question just happened to be a 'comprehension test' on an essay by Bertrand Russell called Mysticism and Logic. Right up my street, just what I wanted to study. Waltzed in, but found nobody had the foggiest idea of what it was I was interested in:

and that my friend... is enlightenment — PhilCF

So I designed my own curriculum, comprising philosophy, anthropology, history, psychology and comparative religion. So, in that context, I'm sure I was an exasperating smartase new-ager, but the staff at unisyd all treated me with absolute courtesy and professionalism, much more than I probably deserved. But I decided philosophy as then taught was not for me, I decamped to comparative religion, which I dubbed 'the department of mysticism and heresy', and did an Hons thesis on Emerson and Richard Maurice Bucke. Much later in life I came to realise that Plato was a genius. And here we are.

So, what has philosophy taught you? — Wallows

To think. :up: :smile:

having wasted my high school years on electric guitar — Wayfarer

If you still play, do you still go for electric or acoustic?

How to ask the right questions; and maybe more importantly, how to recognize bad ones - the combat against transcendental stupidity.

If you still play, do you still go for electric or acoustic? — Shamshir

Switched to keyboards, although can still play rhythm guitar.

No one needs philosophy in order to teach them to think. People already think. Philosophy is supposed to refine thinking, although it can actually make people more dumb.

“All of our agents are currently busy. Please hold and we will answer your call as soon as possible.”

Ask not what philosophy can do for you, but what you can do for philosophy." John F Kennedy.

Hahahaha! that's too funny!!!!



Hey Wayfarer, just remember, before the government banned acid, scientist's were using it and making new discoveries while tripping!

....and keep woodshedding that guitar...better yet, keep jamming with friends!!!! My band's on break :(

"What has philosophy taught you?"

That people believe a lot of weird shit, but it's entertaining at that.

"What has philosophy taught you?"

That people believe a lot of weird shit, but it's entertaining at that. — Terrapin Station

You mean, out of those people who are attracted to philosophy forums, many of those people believe a lot of weird shit? Don't - perhaps inadvertently - sully the reputation of all of those people out there (and a few of them here) with enough common sense not to believe all of that weird shit. The weird shit detracts from the value of philosophy, except, like you say, for entertainment value.

The one big exception would be religion. I can't believe how many people outside of the whacky little world of philosophy fall for that one.

What I have learned from philosophy is that most people (includes myself) live in a 'consensus reality'. Nobody really knows what anything is, but they get queues from their culture and society as to how to behave and what to think, and this comprises their reality. Learning to see through that is the main task of philosophy.

Profundity lays here.

What I have learned from philosophy is that most people (includes myself) live in a 'consensus reality'. Nobody really knows what anything is, but they get queues from their culture and society as to how to behave and what to think, and this comprises their reality. Learning to see through that is the main task of philosophy. — Wayfarer

Learning to see things for what they are is important. Not necessarily to see through them, as though they're a sham and truth is on the other side. There's often a consensus for a good reason. Too many people in philosophy develop an aversion to what's right in front of their eyes. This is sometimes mislabeled as 'taking things for granted' just because the answer to some questions is obvious. Not everything is an unfathomable mystery requiring a philosopher to solve. What do philosophers ever actually solve, for that matter? I suppose the fortunate ones might solve their own problems which philosophy itself helped to bring about, like overthinking things and learning to unlearn what you already know. The ultimate goal might be to reach a point where you can just walk away from it.

If we look at the six main sub-disciplines in philosophy -- there could be other ones -- i.e. ontology, epistemology, ethics, metaphysics, aesthetics, and logic, then they are not all equally useful to me.

Then there is the distinction between philosophy and philosophyOf(X), with X being mathematics, science, religion, or any other possibly domain-specific choice. The classics are usually philosophyOf(X) with X=philosophy itself. They are not necessarily the most interesting part of philosophy. Domain-specific philosophy often ends up being more interesting than ... meta-philosophy.

Ontology is fascinating and in my impression a naturally-arising question. What is mathematics? What is science? What is X? What is Y? The only problem is that there is rarely a single, generally-accepted answer. The method of ontology may not be that effective. The only sub-discipline in philosophy that is possibly even worse in that regard, is aesthetics. Is there even anything objective to aesthetics?

Ontology is often classified under metaphysics, but I disagree with that. For example, the question "What is engineering?" does not appear as metaphysical to me.

Concerning metaphysics, to cut a long story short, it invariably degenerates into an exercise of infinite regress.

Concerning ethics, I see the same problem as in metaphysics. Like Aristotle wrote, if nothing is assumed, then nothing can be concluded. So, ethics without mentioning the foundation from which one reasons, is just another exercise in infinite regress.

Logic has been annexed by mathematics in the 19th century. As far as I am concerned, it is no longer part of philosophy.

It is epistemology that I consider to be the true flagship of philosophy. At some point, I thought that category and/or computability could replace epistemology, but I have abandoned that view. Epistemology can never be a ramified, axiomatic theory. It is about patterns that are detected "empirically" in the abstract, Platonic world of knowledge. It is not possible to predict by using some basic rules what new patterns will end up emerging pretty much spontaneously. Epistemology is much more a question of describing correctly what you see.

Is philosophy useful? Is philosophy meaningful? You could ask the same question about mathematics. Using a process of abstraction, we tend to remove semantics, until none is left. All that remains is empty structure. Is an empty structure useful? No. You will need to fill it up again with semantics in order to achieve some measure of usefulness. So, by using abstraction we seek to obtain useless and meaningless structures. We cannot complain at the same time that the results that we seek, have the properties that we actually wanted in the first place.

...what has philosophy taught you? — Wallows

All sorts of things...

The aim, for me at least, was to critique my own worldview/perspective/belief system in order to identify and isolate any and all questionable beliefs. Basically, I wanted to avoid forming, having, and/or holding false belief about anything. The reality check immediately preceding that change was 'earth shattering' so to speak. I became painfully - on a visceral level - aware that a number of different things were not the way I had thought/believed.

An important way of thinking occurred to me via reading and/or doing philosophy.

It involves what sorts of things can be true and what makes them so.

having wasted my high school years on electric guitar and acid — Wayfarer

Wasted?! Doesn't sound like such a terrible misuse of time to me! I'm in my early 40s and I've been learning guitar, piano, synthesis, computer music production, and music theory for the first time and I am loving it! I wish I would have started playing seriously when I was young! I think music is among the best things we have as human beings. It is among the first things I think about when I wonder if life is worth living. When I hear people advocating human extinction, I imagine the world without any experiences of music. What a tragedy! And understanding and playing it, especially improvising, is far more satisfying than just listening. "Wasted..." :roll: :wink:

If some teenager who plays guitar and enjoys it were to tell me that they might give it up, I'd say, "NO! Now's the time! You'll never again have a brain as plastic as yours is now. But don't just fiddle around with it. Really learn it in depth! If you are going to do it, really do it!"

As for acid, well, I left most of that kind of thing behind, mostly out of fear for my sanity, as my last LSD session, 20 years ago, caused a psychotic break. But I did have some truly amazing experiences that forever changed my orientation toward everything. Not what I'd call a waste of time! Some of the most important experiences in my life involved psychedelics. The beauty I experienced! Thinking about it now even tempts me to once again believe in God! Still, I sometimes wonder if those substances damaged me psychologically in certain ways.

I would bet your drug experiences are partly what led you on the path that you describe. No?

I would bet your drug experiences are partly what led you on the path that you describe. No? — petrichor

I was being ironic. My dear departed dad, whom I loved, was an Assoc. Prof in Medicine aged early 30’s, world-famous in his field. Whilst not exactly a black sheep, I was also not a shining star career-wise. In fact with the wisdom of hindsight I was simply not ready to leave home and forge a path at school-leaving age. Guitar was the first thing I found that I actually loved doing - much of the academic world, save a few strands of English, seemed completely meaningless. But pragmatically, the odds of actually making it as a guitarist, is like making it as a pro surfer; the mundane realities of paying your way, even if you’re family is well off, soon hit you. What’s that Jack Kornfield book? ‘After the ecstasy, the laundry’. Exactly like that. Had to do a ton of drudge work just to pay the rent. So I will never regret the path I took, but also it never really ‘paid off’ in obvious ways; I’m still doing drudge work, albeit now at a higher skill level (i.e. working on documentation systems). And still trying to improve and practice. But, thanks for your comments, well spoken. :pray: