The will is just as ‘free’ as random is.
Though we’re determined to survive each quiz,
A spanner sometimes gets thrown in the works,
Preventing the fixed will from being a wiz.
Gambling away your free will, will do you no good - even if you're determined to do so.So, we have no free will and if we do it is subdued by our unchosen inclinations. In essence we're not free. — TheMadFool
randomness = free — rlclauer
Ok, then it seems like we both agree, randomness does not generate free will. I had a very hard time understanding your poem, so take that for what it's worth. If you could speak less obscurely it might help my pea brain out. — rlclauer
Yes, and so it turn out that free will, as other than the will being free to operate when there is no coercion (which is trivial and not the same 'free'), has nothing to be free of—it just kind of sounds like a great thing to have.
So I guess where you and I would have difference, is you believe there is some kind of meta phenomenon of the mind, some will, which affects reality — rlclauer
No, no differences, for the 'will' is merely some part of the brain, and the same for the 'mind'. No metaphysics here; all is physical. No supernatural, no intangible, no hocus-pocus. Those distinct realms fail because they'd still have to exchange energy in the materialistic way, and so they wouldn't be non physical. It's like that someone wants there to be 'free will' because we can pick up other people's brainwaves. Well, who knows if that is, but it doesn't matter, for it would just be another input for the fixed will to chew on. The wider the dynamically changing fixed will becomes, via learning and experience, the better its fixed results. We may do or think something tomorrow that we wouldn't have done today.
We are all dominoes forever falling into each other and constantly reshaping each other's velocities and directions of travel. — rlclauer
Gambling away your free will, will do you no good - even if you're determined to do so. — Shamshir
Freedom of the will is never absolute, but it is not less real for it. Most attempts to deny free will strike me as rooted in what Eric Fromm described as 'fear of freedom' . The realisation that we are self-determining carries a big risk - what if I don't succeed, or make the wrong choices? Wouldn't it just be easier to say that I don't have any choice?
1h — Wayfarer
We want the judge to protect society by taking the offender out of circulation — PoeticUniverse
I think you are relying on the homunculus fallacy — NOS4A2
Then what is doing the resisting? What is resisting what? — Pantagruel
Even if we are not free with respect to a certain obligatory action, it is only because the will is free to determine what that obligation ought to be — Mww
I'm surprised you didn't give your standard reply viz. that if free will didn't exist then why argue about it? — TheMadFool
I chose not to :grin: — Wayfarer
And that is the gamble.Not really. I'm only pointing out that most of the time we operate mechanically - indulging our unchosen inclinations. — TheMadFool
How'd you do that? :chin: — TheMadFool
We decide what is obligatory and what is optional. — TheMadFool
Are we free to choose our preferences that necessarily influence our thoughts in this case? — TheMadFool
Depends on what you call preferences. If by preference is meant innate values, or moral predispositions, then no, we are not free to choose these. They are the ground of personality, an entirely subjective condition. If by preference is meant some inclination to satisfy an empirical interest, then yes, we are free to choose these. — Mww
unpredictability in our social interactions? — Michael McMahon
Randomness is unpredictable. — TheMadFool
I have yet to see an example of myself or anyone willingly choose to do something other than what you most want to do at that moment. — jajsfaye
Consciousness must have a function. — Michael McMahon
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.