If Danish media came out and framed the argument before it was even made, and based on this, Trump publicly called the idea absurd, I would understand why the Danish PM would want to refrain from visiting. — NOS4A2

You've handled the 'nastiness' directed at you and your unpopular views in this topic admirably, so it seems disingenuous to claim an understanding of Trump's thin-skin, which he's demonstrated time and time again.

Trump has been ridiculed since the beginning, caricatured in popular culture, burned in effigy, murdered in music videos and photo shoots; his looks, his body, his voice, his hair, his hands, his mannerisms have all been mocked and ridiculed incessantly; his family, his career, his legacy, put to the violent grindstone of popular opinion.

But he is still there firing back.

If that man’s thin-skinned, then we’re without skin entirely.

Regardless of asymmetric NATO power relations, the point stands, I think. I imagine there are some (albeit a minority of) Americans for whom an example of the tables being reversed could be helpful in illustrating how their attitudes are perceived abroad. Trump is one of them.

It was a response to media reports, not to Trump. No discussion occurred, so it’s absurd to say it is “an absurd discussion”. No conversation occurred, so it’s absurd to say “that’s where the conversation ends”, before it even began. Utterly ridiculous and absurd. — NOS4A2

Now who is playing word police here? Someone misused the word "discuss", oh dear.

You seem pretty fixated on the media. Is any of this about Trump or do you just have a passionate hatred for sensational reporting?

Good point, I must admit.

You seem pretty fixated on the media. Is any of this about Trump or do you just have a passionate hatred for sensational reporting?

Yes, I think the political division is a media-induced hysteria, mostly for reasons of profit, and Trump is the scapegoat for what they’ve caused. I have a dislike of yellow journalism, mainly.

I don't think Trump is as bad as they claim he is.

Yes, I think the political division is a media-induced hysteria, mostly for reasons of profit, and Trump is the scapegoat for what they’ve caused. I have a dislike of yellow journalism, mainly.

I don't think Trump is as bad as they claim he is. — NOS4A2

Yes, that makes sense. There certainly is a kind of hysteria around every new Trump outrage. One that Trump, or more likely people in his circle, are able to exploit well.

It's important, though, not to fall for a genetic fallacy here. If Hitler says the sky is blue, it doesn't turn red. Just because the media is milking Trump for all he is worth doesn't mean things aren't bad.

The most dangerous thing Trump is doing is eroding the traditions and unwritten rules of his office. Democracy relies on these traditions. It's what keeps the naked power play at bay.

So if Denmark proposed buying Florida and demanded that that be discussed in the next meeting with the President, the appropriate response of the US would be what? "Sure, let's chat about it and see what happens"? Or if Trump had tweeted "That's absurd", you'd be criticising him? — Baden

Well, Denmark replied officially by it's representatives quite badly. You see, they acted as if this President wouldn't be tweeting brainfarts or simply joking around. As if this would be something genuinely coming from the United States with the support of it's Congress.

Actually trading Greenland for Florida would have been a great counter response! Anyone thinking that Denmark would be serious would be a total idiot, and obviously Trump could get the idea. Denmark could have easily used this bizarre incident to be in the limelight and to show that Denmark has humor.

Trump wants to horse around and the best response is to horse around back. The guy is just a celebrity bored with the official things the POTUS has to do.

And anyway, if he (Trump) now is serious and angry after the Danes said so badly to him, why not really consider clandestine support of the Greenland Independence Front I referred earlier? :razz:

I have a dislike of yellow journalism, mainly. — NOS4A2

Weren't you saying the other day that hyperbole is common speech, and repeating accusations of Orwellian thought policing that you got from Fox News?

Trump has been ridiculed since the beginning, caricatured in popular culture, burned in effigy, murdered in music videos and photo shoots; his looks, his body, his voice, his hair, his hands, his mannerisms have all been mocked and ridiculed incessantly; his family, his career, his legacy, put to the violent grindstone of popular opinion.

But he is still there firing back. — NOS4A2

I hear a lot of Trump supporters praising Trump for "firing back" with insults and degrading statements, while complaining only about the low behavior when it's directed at Trump. Here's how you avoid being hypocritical: call out inappropriate behavior regardless of who's engaging in it.

Yes, that makes sense. There certainly is a kind of hysteria around every new Trump outrage. One that Trump, or more likely people in his circle, are able to exploit well.

It's important, though, not to fall for a genetic fallacy here. If Hitler says the sky is blue, it doesn't turn red. Just because the media is milking Trump for all he is worth doesn't mean things aren't bad.

The most dangerous thing Trump is doing is eroding the traditions and unwritten rules of his office. Democracy relies on these traditions. It's what keeps the naked power play at bay.

You’re right about the genetic fallacy, though I can’t find what is bad. Beyond the words, I have trouble finding one injustice.

I think it’s for the better, frankly. He’s ridding the office of the political correctness and political niceties that we’ve come too accustomed to, in my opinion. I think it’s refreshing to know what the most powerful person in the world is thinking, even If I don’t agree with it, as opposed to the public/private views and public relations style politics of before. I think that kind of transparency is important for democracy.

I hear a lot of Trump supporters praising Trump for "firing back" with insults and degrading statements, while complaining only about the low behavior when it's directed at Trump. Here's how you avoid being hypocritical: call out inappropriate behavior regardless of who's engaging in it.

I think firing back is completely appropriate, and wholly deserved.

I think it’s refreshing to know what the most powerful person in the world is thinking, even If I don’t agree with it, as opposed to the public/private views and public relations style politics of before. I think that kind of transparency is important for democracy. — NOS4A2

Over 12k lies since taking office is being transparent? Granted his lies are transparent and they appear to come as naturally to him as breathing. What you may not appreciate is that they are tactical, and in that sense he's being a politician. Indeed, he's branded himself as a 'non-politician' who 'speaks his mind' or whatever. That's PR, just not the sort we're used to, because it's amid at a deplorable forgotten flyover demographic. A demographic where solidarity with the herd is more important than the truth.

Fuck. Why is everyone engaging the troll?

Somehow it seems appropriate in a topic about Trump.

Incidentally, I just returned from vacation in Denmark.

My ma wants California.

Not really the topic of chat much in those parts, just a casual grin.
Don't even recall seeing anything about it on the news, though I didn't watch TV that much.
Wasn't aware there'd been some sort of official comment.

But my ma wants California.

I hear a lot of Trump supporters praising Trump for "firing back" with insults and degrading statements, while complaining only about the low behavior when it's directed at Trump. Here's how you avoid being hypocritical: call out inappropriate behavior regardless of who's engaging in it.

I think firing back is completely appropriate, and wholly deserved. — NOS4A2

Indeed! Any firing back on that moronic guy in the oval office is richly deserved! Thanks for giving us carte blanche to say what we think of the pussy-grabbing jerk. I'm an agnostic, but I sincerely hope there's a hell he can rot in when he dies.

...
Man that felt good to express my feelings so openly! But I hope it's obvious how unproductive it is to engage in trash talk. It just inflames the side you're trashing, likely resulting in more of the same. Trump appeals to his base (like you) this way, but it is inflamatory -causing fighting back, and escalating the bad feelings on all sides.

Regardless of asymmetric NATO power relations, the point stands, I think. I imagine there are some (albeit a minority of) Americans for whom an example of the tables being reversed could be helpful in illustrating how their attitudes are perceived abroad. Trump is one of them. — Baden

By mentioning the fact that the US guards Greenland (and other places), he appeared to be proposing that the US has a special status wrt obtaining ownership of Greenland.

But to praxis's point: isn't it funny that we're talking about this instead of something important?

Notes on the passing outrage.

Trump made the grave mistake of quoting a compliment in a tweet. The quote, which spanned 4 tweets, said that the Jewish people,”love him like he’s the second coming of god”.

This, in combination with his use of the phrase “I’m the chosen one” in a recent q&a, reduced the press to describing Trump as having a messiah complex to obfuscate the obvious point of the compliment: Jews love him

Trump Declares Himself King of Israel, Second Coming of God. (He didn’t).

This is the sort of word politics and policing we’re dealing with here. No injustice, no tyranny, no authoritarianism, just crimes of speech and political correctness.

You’re right about the genetic fallacy, though I can’t find what is bad. Beyond the words, I have trouble finding one injustice. — NOS4A2

So, pulling out of the Paris climate accord? The Iran deal?

Putting a climate change denier at the head of the EPA? Giving his relatives government positions they have no qualifications for?

Kinda halfway demolishing Obamacare without an alternative set up?

Separating children from their parents at the border (we have talked about this before, I want to know whether it's bad, not whether it's worse than under Obama)? The wall?

I think it’s for the better, frankly. He’s ridding the office of the political correctness and political niceties that we’ve come too accustomed to, in my opinion. I think it’s refreshing to know what the most powerful person in the world is thinking, even If I don’t agree with it, as opposed to the public/private views and public relations style politics of before. I think that kind of transparency is important for democracy. — NOS4A2

What I think you're missing is that, without political correctness, there is nothing keeping politics from turning into civil war. Once you think it's okay to belittle and dehumanise you political opponents, why should you then follow the rules of a peaceful transfer of power?

I think if you stick to real, legit criticisms you’ll have no issue with me. Criticisms of policy decisions are legit.

But the outrage machine, who follow the propaganda model to a “t”, is using techniques that need to be condemned,

But the outrage machine, who follow the propaganda model to a “t”, is using techniques that need to be condemned, — NOS4A2

So, for example, the way Trump attacks the ‘squad’ should be condemned. Agreed.

I don’t get why people try hold Trump to the same standard of the press. One is a politician, the other is meant to inform the public.

I don’t get why people try hold Trump to the same standard of the press. One is a politician, the other is meant to inform the public. — NOS4A2

One is a for-profit media organization, the other is the President of the United States.

Are you really trying to say that Trump should be held to a lower standard than, say, CNN?

One is a for-profit media organization, the other is the President of the United States.

Are you really trying to say that Trump should be held to a lower standard than, say, CNN?

When we’re comparing the entire 4th estate to the president’s tweets? Yes. Again, one is ethically tasked with keeping the public informed, the other is not.

one is ethically tasked with keeping the public informed, the other is not. — NOS4A2

We were talking about propaganda techniques, that includes deception to some degree. It's unclear how you justify the President doing this but not the press.

When we’re comparing the entire 4th estate to the president’s tweets? Yes. Again, one is ethically tasked with keeping the public informed, the other is not. — NOS4A2

Isn't the president tasked - not just ethically - to represent the nation?

Whitehouse propaganda is tame by any measure. Go look at their videos, for example. It’s all videos of Melania visiting schools and Trump meeting kids from the special olympics. Besides, it pales in comparison to the scope and reach of the entire 4th estate.

Isn't the president tasked - not just ethically - to represent the nation?

Yes, and he certainly does represent the nation, whether they like it or not.

Besides, it pales in comparison to the scope and reach of the entire 4th estate. — NOS4A2

It's worth noting that the 4th estate also includes Fox News and Breitbart, who are hardly engaged propaganda against Trump.

Yes, and he certainly does represent the nation, whether they like it or not. — NOS4A2

I wonder why you dodge all questions about whether Trump's behaviour is appropriate, ethically, constitutionally or otherwise. Perhaps that's just your style of trolling, but I am not sure yet.