So if I believe that I am a postman and if I believe that Mary is my wife then I don’t believe that Mary is married to a postman?

You do... but you also believe that that postman - the one that she is married to - is you...

It's better to stick to Gettier's examples.

You do... but you also believe that that postman that she is married to is you... — creativesoul

So I have two beliefs. One is true and one is false.

It's better to stick to Gettier's examples. — creativesoul

This is a Gettier example. Mary is a con-woman and married to someone else - who happens to be a postman.

As I said... you believe that the postman she is married to is you.

Surely you're not saying otherwise?

That's the false belief. But there’s also the true belief that Mary is married to a postman.

You're not making any sense.

Which is the false belief. — Michael

Problem solved.

Smith does not believe that his wife is married to someone else.

We're looking at Smith's belief.

Smith believes that he is the only one married to his wife.

...there’s also the true belief that Mary is married to a postman. — Michael

Not Smith's belief...

You seem to be saying that if I believe X because I believe Y then I don't really believe X, only Y, and that if Y is false then there is no true belief. But that's just not tenable.

I believe that you will punch me because I believe that you know that I slept with your wife. Do I believe that you will punch me? Yes. However, it turns out that you don't know that I slept with your wife but do believe that I stole $10,000 from you, and so will punch me.

I have a false belief (that you know that I slept with your wife) that justifies a true belief (that you will punch me). And in the same way I have a false belief (that Mary is married to me) that justifies a true belief (that Mary is married to a postman).

Now you're making even less sense.

I have a false belief (that Mary is married to me)... — Michael

That belief is true.

I believe that you will punch me because I believe that you know that I slept with your wife. — Michael

That one is false.

That belief is true. — creativesoul

No, it’s false because Mary isn’t married to me.

That one is false. — creativesoul

My belief that you will punch me is true.

a) I am a postman.
b) Mary is married to me.
c) Therefore, Mary is married to a postman. — Michael

No, it’s false because Mary isn’t married to me. — Michael

:brow:

I said that it’s valid, not that it’s sound. Valid arguments can have false premises. This is really basic stuff, creative.

I believe that you will punch me because I believe that you know that I slept with your wife. — Michael

My belief that you will punch me... — Michael

Note the difference?

I believe X because I believe Y.

Y is one belief, X is a second belief. Again, basic stuff.

I said that it’s valid, not that it’s sound. Valid arguments can have false premises. This is really basic stuff, creative. — Michael

Self contradiction is not valid.

I believe X because I believe Y.

Y is one belief, X is a second belief. Again, basic stuff. — Michael

It is a basic conflation of proposition and belief.

Self contradiction is not valid. — creativesoul

What self-contradiction? It’s a straightforward valid syllogism.

Mary is married to me. Mary isn’t married to me.

I haven’t said that. I’ve said that the argument is valid, not that the premises are true.

I have a false belief (that Mary is married to me)... — Michael

a) I am a postman.
b) Mary is married to me.
c) Therefore, Mary is married to a postman.
— Michael

No, it’s false because Mary isn’t married to me.
— Michael — creativesoul

I haven’t said that. — Michael

:brow:

How does thar address my previous comment?

What comment would you like for me to address?

Try posting the entire comment. I’ll
Do it for you:

a) I am a postman.
b) Mary is married to me.
c) Therefore, Mary is married to a postman.

Isn't this valid? — Michael

I’m asking you (somewhat rhetorically) if the argument is valid. I’m not asserting that both premises are true.

What comment would you like for me to address? — creativesoul

I’ve said that the argument is valid, not that the premises are true. — Michael

a) I am a postman.
b) Mary is married to me.
c) Therefore, Mary is married to a postman. — Michael

I’m asking you (somewhat rhetorically) if the argument is valid. — Michael

I'm asking you (not at all rhetorically) Can you believe that your wife is married to someone else based upon that argument?

I'm asking you (not at all rhetorically) Can you believe that your wife is married to someone else based upon that argument? — creativesoul

I don’t believe that she’s married to someone else, I believe that she’s married to a postman.

And in my other example I believe that you will punch me.