Life, philosophy and means of livelihood

Wayfarer

I'm feeling pretty nervous about my career situation. I'm now into my sixties, have had a fair-to-middling career since stumbling into IT whilst enrolled at university pursuing a degree in Tilting at Windmills. It's turned out that the things I studied haven't been all directly useful in the job market - no surprise there. So now I'm a techwriter, which I have been since 2004, currently on a contract that is due to finish at end of month; my spouse is currently looking for work also and finding it hard; age-ism ain't pretty. We're highly geared, no savings, many commitments. We will scrape through October, but unless more work is forthcoming for either or preferably both, it's going to be..... 'Selling up and moving' might be one version of it but, under duress, and in one of the most over-heated propery markets in the world. 'Slow motion train wreck' comes to mind.

But sometimes I also feel that I have understood something of genuine depth, something genuinely real, through philosophy. It's subtle, but real, it's not just words or empty concepts. I set out to validate some insights I had as a youth, here I am five decades later, and inwardly I think I really have done that. And at a cost, too. I turned on, tuned in, dropped out, for this, so that I'm not the suburban academic, lawyer or doctor I was meant to be. But there are glimpses of some sylvan landscapes, some starry sky above, that makes it all seem worthwhile. I'm pretty sure, had I followed the appointed path, I never would have found these things. But, how to live that out? What does it mean, in practical terms? I really don't think it would translate into a book; even though I know I can write, the kinds of ideas I'm pursuing are not of interest to many. (I would also probably be classed as a reactionary, I suspect.)

I feel I could live low-key lifestyle and basically study the things I've been studying all my life (although very mindful of drifting into ennui and indolence). I would like to just go to the Uni library, study, write, and audit lectures for subjects that I'm interested in, and go on retreats. I'm in excellent health, and have some marketable skills, mainly writing and editing, I understand the internet and information technology, but no annuity or income aside from what I earn. Meh.

'My back to the wall, a victim of laughing chance
This is to me, the essence of true romance'

Steely Dan, Deacon Blues.

Punshhh

It's not easily being an outsider(intellectually), but it's very rewarding if you are an explorer of some kind. It is something which has been going on way back into our history. Outsiders have the freedom to step out of the intellectual milieu, to stalk the frontiers to go beyond them and return with prizes, inspiration, inventions. The drawbacks are that you can be disenfranchised, treated as weird, regarded as having some psychological deficit driving you out of the system. It can be a struggle to get by financially, you have to find some novel way of accessing the market, playing a role for which there is demand.

I have struggled my whole career to fit in, but as I had chosen to study something outside the system(cabinetmaking), because I needed that freedom it gave me, I was always an outsider. I have tried this and that, shunned the path of becoming a joiner in the building industry(a route back in), found how difficult it is to access the market from outside. Until now I find myself following a course which requires skill and intelligence, which being an outsider nurtured, in order to find a niche which only a very few have the ability to exploit( an independent artist).

Although financially I am fortunate enough to have found a partner who has the imagination and freedom to be an outsider, while remaining in the system and securing a good salary. Thus enabling me to get established without having to struggle.

Living a simple and frugal lifestyle makes it easier, I am fortunate that I and my partner are very thrifty.

Wayfarer

↪Punshhh

I do wish we were in geographical proximity, I'd ask you 'round for a cup of tea.

In some ways, technical writing has been almost like an independent type of 'artisanship' - it was the first and only real career skill I found. But it has become a very competitive field in the last five years, I think because a lot of people who did journalism couldn't get a job in that area, and turned to tech writing.

I've been quite good at blending in - too good, perhaps, because I've really just become the middle-class salary-earner that I had wanted not to be, but all the alternatives seemed to involve a lot of manual work.

Eh, I shouldn't complain, there are millions of people in much worse situations. Anyway whatever happens, I have to push myself harder to mine this small vein of gold which has appeared in the diggings.

Shawn

↪Wayfarer

I don't know if it's sound advice; but, you could possibly look into moving to some country you or your wife fancied where your home country currency goes much further. That's what a lot of folks are doing since the incessant increase in prices and inflation eating away at purchasing power (expect that to only increase, unfortunately). It sounds like something you would be able to do and maintain some income via your skills.

Wayfarer

↪Question

I do have some friends who have moved to Thailand. I think, if I were single, I might consider that, but family ties are strong, and we have dependent relatives. Or another another possibility is Australia's tropical north, the property values north of Cairns are much lower than down here. They're possibilities! and, thanks for the suggestion, it is definitely worth considering.

Erik

Sounds like a life well-lived, Wayfarer. Most definitely nothing to regret IMO -- you answered your calling and preserved a sense of freedom from the overwhelming public pressure to align your life with the dictates of the market, with it's narrow understanding of success and failure being tied to the accumulation of money and possessions. A collective form of madness indeed.

Anyhow I too am stepping away from a job soon without a definite plan of action in place. It will involve scaling back expenses (which are already pretty Spartan-like) and spending more time pursuing things that matter to me, although I'm not quite sure how this will translate into a livable situation. I'd like to delve into writing and independent scholarship with all my energy for once - not merely as a hobby as has been the case until now - and see where that leads. I do feel I could move back into a management or consulting position fairly quickly if necessary.

Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

Wayfarer

↪Erik

And to you Erik

OglopTo

Some stories on ageing from East Asia that I recalled after reading the OP:

101 East - Ageing Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8wdLWUEnzI

101 East - Hong Kong: Aged and Abandoned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDBixQZ_Io

People and Power - South Korea: Suicide Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFD61MzDiHI

I'm not really sure how to feel about ageing. Try as I might to accept that ageing is inherently part of life, I can't help myself from viewing this as a tragedy of sorts.

One can opt to try to be self sufficient by fending for oneself -- toiling during one's prime or toiling harder after retirement -- or swallowing one's pride and 'burden' others in the community. A proper mindset can only go so far when the practicalities of daily life kicks in. As it stands now, not everyone can afford a happily ever after.

Sorry for my usual pessimistic ramblings. I guess I'm just trying to say that you're not alone, goodluck, and I'm pretty sure that you'll manage in one way or another. : )

Punshhh

↪Wayfarer

Thanks for the invite, I will be travelling around New Zealand for five weeks at the end of January. Although I know it is still a long way from Australia.

I wouldn't move to Thailand at the moment, there have been riots recently and that part of Asia is metaphorically and perhaps in reality in the firing line from places like North Korea and China. Not to mention Malaysia and the possibility of radical militants.

Also down sizing to poorer countries may turn out to be a one way street. I have been planning to move to southern France at some point, looks as though that might have to be put on hold. Although if Scotland leaves the U.K. And joins the EU I will be able to get an EU passport. I would love to move to New Zealand, love the place, but we have aging parents here to think of.

Wayfarer

↪Punshhh

New Zealand is great, only been there once but it is a great country. I think John Key is really capable political leader, its booming - net Aus-NZ migration is going there way at the moment.

One of the high points of the journey thus far, was the address at the graduation ceremony for the degree of Master of Buddhist Studies, that I completed in 2011-12. The address at the Graduation Ceremony was by the Professor of Media Studies, who happened to be Greek, on the theme of 'an unexamined life is not worth living'. I wish I had a transcript of that address, because it was absolutely brilliant, and made me realise how indebted I am to that university, and also how well it really did do what a University should do, which is teaching you how to think for yourself. I think it's my favourite place in the world.

↪OglopTo

To be honest, I really can't see myself leaving Australia, or New South Wales, to be more general.

As you get older, there are times your own mortality hits you, but you can also learn to accept it. Key thing is to stay healthy. That is crucial. Not everyone has the same longevity or constitution but staying fit is really important. The other thing is, learning to let go. And, thanks for your kind thoughts. :-)

Agustino

↪Wayfarer

You're a writer you say. Why don't you work as a freelance writer then? You can specialise on whatever you want. I worked as a writer on my own part-time while I was in University before I started my own magazine business (along with a partner, a business which I no longer own I should add). I could earn up to 1100 USD / month at it working part-time, not even full time cause I also had to study - and consider also that I literarily had no experience when I was doing it. I literarily had nothing - I literarily one day woke up, got out of bed, and said I'm gonna make money doing some writing, and I advertised for myself like hell. I'm currently working as a web developer after having been employed as an engineer - also on my own now, and will probably turn it into a business sometime in a year or two (for some reason I feel less willing to call people, struggle with it, etc. than I was when I was younger), but I'm still getting fully in touch with it, cause I'm currently doing small projects only. But even so I earn about double what I earned from writing back in university, and I don't work that much at all at the moment, cause I'm not really challenging myself (as I said I work on easy things). I've actually flirted going back to writing as a freelancer for awhile, but I think investing myself in web development has more potential.

So yeah - set up store as a freelancer - work from home. Never have a boss again, especially since you're old, you have so much experience. I wish I had your experience when I first did it - and I still could make money even without it, although getting the first jobs was a hassle for me - I remember having spent one week to get my first job lol.

mcdoodle

Wayfarer, I wish you all the best. By necessity rather than choice I downsized in property so I have a little fund plus the State pension and a little pension from the distant days when I used to write soap opera and other scripts that made me some real money! (I gave that up to write novels that alas didn't sell or, after the ones that didn't sell, didn't get published - but you take your chances) Like you I did get some work on the techie side of things, doing websites for people, but now I just do that free for voluntary groups. There's less and less money in it and I can't be arsed to keep up to date.

Now I've gone back to Uni in my late 60's and am really enjoying it, though the discipline is hard. I find my teachers scrupulous and very well-read. I'm doing a thing called a grad diploma, which involves mostly being taught this and that, and then I'm trying to decide whether to register for an MPhil or just write on my own. I love having the Uni library subscriptions, it's marvellous to have the world's journals at your fingertips, and many texts are now electronic. It's also fun to have the company of eager young philosophers, but I think once I go into researching more deeply a particular subject, that aspect will dim.

I don't think 'being reactionary' is a problem as long as you can marshal your arguments well and accept and give out thoughtful criticism. Where I am, there's a surprising (to atheist me) number of people pursuing religion-related topics, for instance; only last night I got chatting to a woman doing a PhD about 'anger in Buddhism'.

Alas it all costs money though. But it has brought me some sort of inner peace for the present.

Wayfarer

@Agostino - I work as a technical writer, doing systems documentation, configuration guides, and the like. Such jobs pay at the rate of around $500-$600 per day, so as long as one can keep working, then it's good income. But it's finding the next job that's the challenge! I think freelance writing in the age of the internet must be extraordinarily difficult to make anything from.

@McDoodle - I would love to re-enrol, but I did my MA in 2011-12, and I don't think I'm a feasible PhD candidate. So for the time being, it's a matter of keeping on trying to get the next gig.

Agustino

↪Wayfarer

Earnings seem very high there, you probably have high costs of living as well. In Eastern Europe where I live, there are much less than 0.001% of people making 500-600$/day working any job (and they are stuff like Central Bank Directors, etc.). Here making 1500 net USD/month already puts you well into top 5% by earnings. But then costs of living are much smaller - that's why I'm having such an easy time not working a lot here at the moment. It's really an entirely different world the developed countries vs the developing ones. There's definitely more opportunities in developing countries though - easier to access all things considered. And funnily enough, everything we see written online, or in many books - it's all geared towards the developed countries - although the real opportunities aren't really there, and what it takes to succeed in a developing country is very different from what it takes in a developed one.

ArguingWAristotleTiff

But there are glimpses of some sylvan landscapes, some starry sky above, that makes it all seem worthwhile. I'm pretty sure, had I followed the appointed path, I never would have found these things. But, how to live that out? What does it mean, in practical terms? — Wayfarer

You followed the right path my friend. Never doubt that memories are worth more than "stuff".

None the less, I understand and live the fear of not having any savings, pensions or SS which is due to run out 5 years before I retire. My decision? My way of dealing with the fear? Is to take a little retirement each day understanding that the golden days of yesteryear don't exist now, if they ever did at all. I asked my Grandfather of 92 years when the "Golden" years were? He shocked me when he said it is all a scam, they don't exist.
This little forum on the net, this small group of like thinkers and friends are all part of my daily retirement intake. A very positive one at that!

Hey, why not try volunteering at a church or food bank? Start a Grateful Journal, write down something each day that you are grateful for. Some days it will be a BIG thing to be grateful for and other days it will be a modest grateful but never let a day pass that leaves you without being grateful for being alive and with someone you love~ On New Years Eve, read your journal with your love and tie it with a bow, put it on a shelf and begin a new Grateful Journal for the new year. You will be gently surprised at all that you have been through and still made it through, because that is the kind of people you and your wife are.

Don't Stop Believin' Journey

wuliheron

Easily Amused

What is the difference between acceptance and denial?
What is the difference between beautiful and hideous?
What is the difference between infinity and the void?
The usual clowns are festive as if attending a party,
Or frolicking about in the park upon a spring day,
While, my mind still wanders in ignorant bliss,
A newborn babe, yet to learn how to smile,
Alone without any real aim or purpose.
The zombies, have enough to spare,
Whereas, I have nothing at all,
And my heart remains foolish,
Muddy waters always cloudy.
Whereas I am dim and confused,
Others, are more often self-assured;
While I remain completely in the dark.
Aimless as a wave just drifting out to sea,
Bereft the slightest attachment, to anything,
Most people are busy getting necessary crap done,
Whereas I am often weird and impractical.
I don't share everybody else's concerns,
Being so easily amused by nature.

Janus

↪Wayfarer

I started my working life as a gardener/ handyman when I was at art school around 1975. My ambitions to be a professional artist were soon quelled when I got a taste for the gallery scene and all the arse-likin' and politicin' involved in that.

The gardening work soon developed into a small landscaping business when I married for the first time, and into a full on landscape contracting business when i married for the second time. That lasted 11 years and after we split amicably I downsized considerably and began to do almost of the work myself, just employing casual laborers when I need them because of excessive workload. So, I have done physical work all my working life. I have always read philosophy as well as pursued my interests in writing poetry and prose and painting, and have always, since my early teens, read philosophy, first Eastern then Western. For the last 8 years I have been an undergraduate, first at Sydney then (and now) at Macquarie, university. majoring in philosophy.

I don't think I would ever want to be a full-time academic. I work, and have for the last ten years worked about twenty hours a week. I own my house in Sydney; no mortgage, and have not advertised for 25 years. But I and my current life-companion have not much superannuation to speak of, so I think I will never be able to fully retire. We do have an investment property in Nimbin (yes, in some ways I'm kinda an old hippie) and probably only if we decide to move there will I be able to retire, I guess. I don't give too much thought to it all, I've always tended to live day by day. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof".

I do agree with you about fitness and health being of prime importance. I have always practiced some physical discipline as well as physical work and I am not that much less fit and strong than when i was 20. Martial arts, Tai chi, yoga and/or weight-training and lots of bush walking (Sydney's great for that as you no doubt well know).

Wayfarer

@Agostino - Sydney is indeed an expensive city, when both of us are working we make what would be considered a huge income in a lot of places, but then you become highly geared, and have to keep earning at that rate to keep up. I guess that is why it is called 'the rat race'.

@Tiff - I have done a little volunteering work, and would like to do more in future. And thanks for the encouragement, I think it is important to follow the dream even when the consequences sometimes seem scary. (There used to be a bumper sticker around, 'Magic Happens'. A few years later, another sticker appeared, 'Still waiting for the magic to happen....')

'Owning a house in Sydney with no mortgage' is a distant dream in our case. The value of the property we have has doubled, but the bank still owns a fair slice, and if we were to sell we would have to buy somewhere else. So, moving right out of town is one option, but it's a big step, and it doesn't always work out for people. (We are thinking Blue Mountains, but not yet.)

@Wuliheron - oh to be a wandering sage. I wrote a song about it decades back, I think after first reading Alan Watts.

The Wanderer

There was snow on the mountain
And fog in the valley
My stomach was empty
My feet getting numb

Darkness was coming, I wandered in circles
Looking for shelter to wait for the sun

Almost past caring, I came to a grotto,
Gathered some firewood, took it inside
Reached for my matches, jumped back in confusion
And old man was blinking his eyes to the light

Bore no family, knew no home
Wandered highways all alone
Asked him what he had to show
Where did all his wandering go?

He said 'life is the wind, and I am the water
my mind is the weather, my passions are waves
'Life is the forest and I am the soil
The trees are my music, my mind is the leaves'.

wuliheron

↪Wayfarer

I'm just too easily amused writing the Book That Can Never Be Written. :)

Wosret

Too bad procrastination wasn't a viable career, eh? We'd all be saved.

Wayfarer

↪Wosret

Tried it, didn't work out, which I discovered aged about 30.

ralfy

If trends concerning limits to growth continue, then simpler lifestyles will eventually be the norm.

Wayfarer

↪ralfy

You're right there!

Jeremiah

↪Wosret

"Too bad procrastination wasn't a viable career, eh? We'd all be saved."

But it is; I think they call it being a congressman.

Wosret

↪Jeremiah

Working for the government notwithstanding.

BC

John Lennon - Working Class Hero

As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty-odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they're telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill

A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

BC

I always had difficulty taking work seriously -- except for the first two or three years at three or four good professional jobs. So much of it either seemed from the start, or came to seem, like some sort of grand scam. I worked in non-profits; "the bottom line" is a bit different than the bottom line of for-profits. I was, I am, capable of industrious, high quality output, but I do need to feel highly motivated. Cash has never been a sufficient incentive. I have always needed a good reason to work hard.

The difference between non-profits and for profits is simple enough: In a capitalist society like much of the world, one does business to make money. Most of the money accrues to the owners, not the laborers of course. What do you think business is--some sort of welfare operation? All of the various non-profit operations -- everything from fundraisers for elite art museums to social work among bottom-of-the-barrel prostitutes is designed to aid in the functioning, maintenance, and reproduction of society as it exists, not as it might, should, or could exist.

We work because we have to, and people have to be paid to work -- no pay, no work. If you find a job about which you can say "that works for me!" good. If you don't have that kind of job, don't bother trying to make a silk purse out of the sow's ear you have. It's a pig's ear, it's not silk, it's not even polyester, and it's basically ugly.

Degreed, dressed in a suit (or not), we're still fucking peasants, pretty much, like John Lennon sang.

Worry about retirement as much as it makes sense to worry about it. Enjoy life while you are still young enough to do interesting things. You might not live long enough to retire; you may not be healthy when you retire; you might be dead before, or shortly after you retire; you probably won't be fit, handsome or beautiful, and in demand when you reach 65 or 70, so live now.

If you want to make a ruckus, make it now. If you want to be a prophet, a poet, or a painter, better do it now. Live cheaply, save your pennies.

Life, philosophy and means of livelihood

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