In order to ask or answer whether or not something exists, one must first know what that something is.
How do you expect anyone to answer such a poorly framed question? — DingoJones
In order to ask or answer whether or not something exists, one must first know what that something is. How do you expect anyone to answer such a poorly framed question? — DingoJones
I think you got the questions backwards. First ask, what is it, and then you can assess whether ot exists. — NKBJ
My personal take:
Supernatural spirits: by definition cannot exist. — NKBJ
Interesting... but (with all due respect) we are intentionally and with IMHO good reason NOT talking about “what created it?”. In the OP, I tried to nip that whole God question in the bud. The first rule of Fight Club is... :wink:Spacetime was apparently created in the Big Bang. What created it? Something not of spacetime. Could that something be non-material? — Devans99
First of all, this is a question and a question's purpose is an answer. He/She didn't write a book with mistakes to be pointed down. Criticism is welcomed when it comes with an answer.
I see his question has a mistake. But that doesn't make you a reason to deny it's answer. Hope you understand. — Tarun
Ok, thanks for your reply. FWIW, I would not disagree with any of it. I also am interested in the possible energy/spirit relationship. Could you expand on what you mean by “all of us are bound by spirits”?Now, for that question, I could say spirit is existent in everyone. I could say so firmly because all of us are bound by spirits. This is not much than a name. In science, we call it energy. In spirituality we call it a spirit. — Tarun
Or to put it positively, the topic is “The Possible Existence (and Definition) of Spirit”} — 0 thru 9
It was the only justification for a spirit world I could think of. I was approaching the problem from if you could justify the existence of one spirit (IE God) then maybe other spirits are possible too. — Devans99
To start simply, with something that is (or might be) part of our nature... SPIRIT. Does such a thing exist? Is so, what could it possibly be? Is it by nature mostly undefinable, or only partially “knowable”? Is matter, energy, both, neither? Does the mind, body, actions, and spirit of a person intersect in some way?
And for those feeling adventurous, compare and contrast the idea of “spirit” with that of “soul”. Could a thing or animal be thought to have a spirit, if perhaps not a soul? — 0 thru 9
:up: I didn’t happen to word it so, but that is definitely a good question. (And this might be one of those topics where there are more questions than answers. Thus putting the importance on the questions themselves.)If your question includes the notion, "Are there things involved in REALITY that humans either do not know exist or are not capable of knowing"...then of course the "possibility" of those things existing does occur. — Frank Apisa
Yes, the word “supernatural” is a loaded term. Which I tried to avoid in the OP, but was bound to come up eventually. As you suggest, how supernatural is defined makes an enormous difference in any discussion of it.I do question the use of the word "supernatural" in this type of question, though. — Frank Apisa
Yes. I would tend to agree with these statements. I would add that perhaps human understanding is something akin to vision. That some kind of vision, no matter how fuzzy or blurry, is better than none.Supernatural usually is defined as, "something attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature."
If it is "beyond scientific understanding"...then by definition it is beyond human understanding.
Surely there ARE things beyond human understanding. — Frank Apisa
I agree with that. Thanks for your reply. What do you think the spirit (or spiritual nature) within an individual is? Does such possibly exist?However, the second understanding of "supernatural"..."something beyond the laws of nature" is stickier.
If a thing "exists"...it exists. It IS a part of nature whether humans are capable of understanding it or not.
If "ghosts" or "spirit entities" exist...they ARE part of nature.
Any of the things normally held to be "supernatural"...shouldn't be considered that at all.
IF they exist...they are a part of nature...not other than natural at all. — Frank Apisa
:up: Interesting visual analogy. Thank you. (BTW, I used to be an Eternalist. But it didn’t last too long. :snicker: )With eternalism, the past is real in some sense. I wonder if the ghosts that are reported across many different cultures are somehow accessing the past sort of like a video recording. Eternalists hold that Socrates still exists, maybe in some sense what could be called his spirit does. — Devans99
Thanks for your reply. — 0 thru 9
What do you think the spirit (or spiritual nature) within an individual is? — O
Does such possibly exist?
Ok. These statements may in themselves be somewhat of an assertion, but no problem. So are you maybe arguing for a hard materialism? Would you say there a spirit component (for lack of a better term) of humans, analogous with (though perhaps not equivalent to) the mental or emotional aspects? If it helps to clarify the OP a little, personally I am more interested in what’s “here” within us humans rather than what may or may not be “out there” somewhere.Any assertion of the existence of any of these preternatural things humans have irrationally feared for millennia is baseless. None has been evidenced reliably. All are based on the personal experiences, typically of unbalanced individuals seeking attention, experiences no one has ever been able to demonstrate or duplicate under any controlled conditions. Even in this, the information age, when everyone has a smart phone equipped with a video camera, no paranormal activity has ever been recorded, and no "soul" has ever been detected. It might be time to start thinking about where to bury all of this nonsense. — whollyrolling
I would agree with that. Two people looking at the same object (a flag, a painting, a person) could maybe agree on the physical aspects or name of what they were looking at. But anything beyond that is most likely personal, individual, idiosyncratic, and particular. Things like feelings, associations, meanings... So I wonder if the spirit of a person is extremely personal? Or is it something trans-personal, beyond the individual? (Like “the Force” in the Star Wars movies, perhaps?) Something in between?Feelings, emotions are less evidently correlated with the above, but some correlation can still be found, for instance the view of a sunset or of a person may give rise to specific emotions, which may change over time. — leo
Do you think the spiritual could (theoretically of course) interact with the material world? Or perhaps influence or affect it? Or are they somewhat polar opposites?And then there are the spiritual experiences that seem to be yet something else, as if they were experiences of a world beyond the material. — leo
:up: Yes. Likewise, I am not a big fan of human exceptionalism. Sure, we’re different and unique. Let’s pat ourselves on the back, and proceed to other matters.I don't see any reason to believe that only humans have a 'soul' or even a spirit, and not other animals. We can't see directly what other animals feel any more than we can see what other humans feel, but for some reason the majority of humans want to believe that only them feel while other animals don't. Maybe because they want to feel special and "better than". — leo
Seems like an honest and thoughtful answer. What more can one ask of such a difficult and slippery subject? Thanks. :smile:Have no idea...not even sure if there is "spirit" within an individual.
I am just the "me" behind the eyes...or the "me" I see when I look in a mirror. If there is a spirituality for me presently...it has to do with the thinking process I experience.
I do not suppose a soul...although there might be something of that sort. I certainly do not have conscious contact with anything like that. — Frank Apisa
Thoughts? Please feel free to add your own questions (like the ones above) about the topic, for they may spur some insights. — 0 thru 9
Do you think the spiritual could (theoretically of course) interact with the material world? Or perhaps influence or affect it? Or are they somewhat polar opposites? — 0 thru 9
To start simply, with something that is (or might be) part of our nature... SPIRIT. Does such a thing exist? Is so, what could it possibly be? Is it by nature mostly undefinable, or only partially “knowable”? Is matter, energy, both, neither? Does the mind, body, actions, and spirit of a person intersect in some way?
And for those feeling adventurous, compare and contrast the idea of “spirit” with that of “soul”. Could a thing or animal be thought to have a spirit, if perhaps not a soul? — 0 thru 9
Why the careful exposition of the meaning of "exists" but none for the equally vague "real". You seem to restrict "exists" by its etymology and yet allow "real" to mean 'that which is born of rational thought' without any supporting philology. — Isaac
real (adj.)
early 14c., "actually existing, true;" mid-15c., "relating to things" (especially property), from Old French reel "real, actual," from Late Latin realis "actual," in Medieval Latin "belonging to the thing itself," from Latin res "matter, thing," of uncertain origin. Meaning "genuine" is recorded from 1550s; sense of "unaffected, no-nonsense" is from 1847. 1
Sat (Sanskrit: सत्) is a Sanskrit word meaning "the true essence" and that "which is unchangeable" of an entity, species or existence. 'Sat' is a common prefix in ancient Indian literature and variously implies that which is good, true, virtuous, being, happening, real, existing, enduring, lasting, essential — Wikipedia
In science, our goal is to describe everything we observe or measure in the Universe through natural, physical explanations alone. 2 — Ethan Siegel
As far as I know, the writings of the World's major book religions and systems of moral philosophy are the only source of information about "spirit", or similar concepts. — Galuchat
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