Great! What wrong does the murderer do, by your lights? — tim wood

Murder.

Still great! Short answers are good. We just have to investgate what they mean. Does your answer mean that the murder that murderers do is wrong?

Does your answer mean that the murder that murderers do is wrong? — tim wood

Yes. I'm sure I told you this way back in the thread. Murder is wrong in my view. I'm morally against murdering people.

Yes. I'm sure I told you this way back in the thread. Murder is wrong in my view. I'm morally against murdering people — Terrapin Station

I confirm that you have. But my question you did not answer, and as I recall, have not answered. Please answer it. It's a simple question. I can even simplify it. Terrapin: Is murder wrong?

Is murder wrong? — tim wood

Yes.

Of course, that answer isn't context-independent, because it's incoherent to ask it context-independently. The relevant context is an individual's opinion. That's my opinion.

You do understand that wrong-to-you and wrong are two different things, that murder-to-you is not the same as murder, yes? And again you confirm that to you, and presumably to your fellow relativists,murder is not wrong!

You do understand that wrong-to-you and wrong are two different things, that murder-to-you is not the same as murder, yes? And again you confirm that to you, and presumably to your fellow relativists,murder is not wrong! — tim wood

Two different things in that some people believe an absurd fiction that there can be a "wrong" that's not wrong to someone. But that's strictly false. Wrong is always to someone. That's what it is.

If you're saying that we're not making claims about an ignorant myth, sure. Why would we be talking about something that's strictly rooted in ignorance? How about we don't forward ignorant myths and we instead deal with what wrong really is? Dealing with what wrong really is, we're not at all saying that murder isn't wrong.

I'm not going to insist that you're using "wrong" in an ignorant way every time you say that term. I'm going to assume that you're capable of learning and not saying ignorant things.

Two different things in that some people believe an absurd fiction that there can be a "wrong" that's not wrong to someone. But that's strictly false. Wrong is always to someone. That's what it is. — Terrapin Station

How about wrong to everyone? Given we understand what murder is, can you describe how it might not be wrong in your subjective sense? That is, it must be that you presume that murder is not wrong for someone.

How about wrong to everyone? — tim wood

Wrong to everyone is wrong to a lot of someones. Wrong to Wilson and wrong to Andrea and wrong to Gary and wrong to Maria and so on.

That is, it must be that you presume that murder is not wrong for someone. — tim wood

I don't, actually. I'm not saying anything like that. It would simply be a contingent matter, kind of like asking if anyone owns a pink polka-dotted LeBron James shirt. I don't know if anyone does or not.

can you describe how it might not be wrong in your subjective sense? — tim wood

It would simply be a matter of someone feeling that it's morally permissible to commit at least some murders.