And I do think that economic well-being comes before ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness. — Brett

And what if ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness would ultimately provide the solution to economic well-being?

Just a thought.

And what if ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness would ultimately provide the solution to economic well-being? — Possibility

I have a feeling that if everyone were highly developed along those lines, the economy would be a lot smaller.

Petrichor beleives that the education system is a natural extension of society in that it has no choice but to serve society. — Brett

That's not quite what I've said. But, I suppose I wouldn't entirely disagree in the following sense. The education system is like an organ in the body, and a big and important one at that. It co-evolved with the rest of the structures in society. They are inseparable. The fact is, it simply does perform a certain set of functions for the larger social body. If it didn't, neither would be here in their present form. The rest of the system as it is and the education system are mutually interdependent. A society like ours without one like it would be like a body without a liver or something. Such an education system without that society would be like a liver without a body. To say it has no choice but to serve society is like saying a liver has no choice but to serve a body, as if the liver has somehow been compelled to serve, or as though it has some kind of agency. I wouldn't quite put it like that. And I wouldn't call it an "extension" of society. It is much closer to the core than that.

And you can't just take an education system that you like the sound of off the shelf and plug it into a society. It doesn't work like that. The two have been deeply interwoven going back to their most primitive origins and they evolved together slowly into their present form. They really aren't properly seen as separate things, one serving the other.

I have a feeling that if everyone were highly developed along those lines, the economy would be a lot smaller. — petrichor

Not such a bad thing, if you ask me.

I think it’s true that education may not solve economic problems for all individuals.
So if it’s the economic problems for individual we’re addressing, and education doesn’t necessarily do it, then what does? And I do think that economic well-being comes before ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness. — Brett

And what if ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness would ultimately provide the solution to economic well-being? — Possibility

This is an example of reading lines out of context. But it’s possible I hadn’t been very clear about what I meant.
What I meant was that economic well-being is essential and possibly a right. Even if an individual fails to learn the skills required to get by they should still have some sort of financial security which they’re unable to achieve through their own efforts. I’m not suggesting that money comes before self awareness.

And what if ideas about self awareness, growth and meaningfulness would ultimately provide the solution to economic well-being? — Possibility

Then that would be everything we could hope for.
My reference was to those who for some reason cannot keep up, or gain the life skills required to be part of the economy, to accept that this is a reality and the fault no one in particular.

I think we’re both in agreement here.

I’m a little confused as to how the term “economic well-being” is being used.

Things like “self-awareness,” “growth,” and “meaningfulness” only have existence if the human being has enough resources to sustain their lives - no food means none of the above.

Economic well-being is essential. Don’t forget that “economy” isn’t just about money, it is a much broader term and the exchange of money is only a small part of economics. I think this is slowly becoming more apparent to more people as creativity and information becomes a more prominent resource we need to pay attention to in terms of distribution and efficiency.

Economic well-being - no fear of the wolf at the door.

Yes, I agree. We are using it a bit loosely.

“Economics is a study of man in the ordinary business of life. It enquires how he gets his income and how he uses it. Thus, it is on the one side, the study of wealth and on the other and more important side, a part of the study of man.”
Alfred Marshall, Principles of Economics

Plainer English would be more useful than an analogy. How about saying the minimum requirements for sustaining a life without excess stress and strain?

Same thing. Analogies exist for a reason.

To highlight and clarify. If not they serve only to cloud the meaning. You did the later btw :)

Did what?

Your meaning was UNCLEAR, hence the LATER of what I said NOT the former.

If you need me to point this out further ... could’ve meant “be content,” “have plenty,” “have minimal requirements,” or numberous other possible interpretations. To say “keep the wolf away from the door is vague enough to be interpretated in various ways so it would’ve made sense to clarify further - this is a philosophy forum after all.

Either way I agree with the principle that basic physical sustenance is a valid prerequisite to fortify, and/or build toward, a better sense of “self-awareness” and personal growth. Being alive and healthy are obvious requirements of living a “good” life. What we mean by “health” is also a more nuanced issue as the old dichotomy of “psychological” and “physiological” no longer holds the dated distinctions they once did.

Regarding my use of analogy - your comment is fair enough. What are we after but clarity?

My post regarding the meaning of economic was to indicate agreement with you about using the term too loosely.

What I meant by ‘keeping the wolf from the door’ was the idea that everyone is entitled to food, shelter and clothing (possibly there are some other essentials that don’t come to mind), the minimum a person or family needs.

My point about that was that some people don’t have the skills to survive out in the economic world; they can’t compete with others. We all know the reasons why: their environment, their abilities, their upbringing, etc. Though its true some do overcome their circumstances. An education doesn’t seem to happen for them, even though they may attend school. They won’t get jobs; they may get some sort of work, or find ways to get money, but they won’t develop skills, improve their situation or develop friendships that enhance their lives. Is there any point in keeping them in school when all it amounts to is some sort of daycare to keep them off the street?

Which brings me to the first essential requirement of education; they have to be able to function in the world on an economic level. Without that there’s no opportunity for self awareness, growing confidence, self esteem and so on. Whether they’re victims of the system, or fodder for capitalism is irrelevant, because if they can’t take part in the economy then they sink to the bottom very quickly. To ignore that fact is to condemn them to a life of constant struggle with little hope of developing as a person. And isn’t that what so many here have said; education is about developing the potential in us.