Maybe but the only way out I can realistically see would be making his base disappear. And that's not going to happen. The twenty percent of Americans who love the guy are the twenty percent that decide who represents the Republican party. Besides, Pence is arguably worse, so it's not like the way "out" leads anywhere positive.

Besides, Pence is arguably worse, so it's not like the way "out" leads anywhere positive. — Baden

Or they both go and Pelosi will be President.

Is that the way it works? I thought Mitch would be next in line?

Speaker of the House after the Vice President. After Pelosi it would likely be Grassley as he's expected to succeed Hatch as President pro tempore of the Senate. McConnell isn't in line at all.

Here's the current list.

I don't think it will lead anywhere positive directly, but indirectly it would be a message/signal showing accountability, and a widespread rebuke of the post-truth politics that got us here.

America (at least used to) set democratic and legal standards in its role as the global leader. If Trump doesn't get spanked it will set a frighteningly low standard, and would likely lead to the end of American global leadership.

Ah, ok. Well maybe Trump resigns and Pence's ecstatic joy turns into a cardiac arrest and Pelosi dies of boredom at the sound of her own bullshit. And then... Grassley. Nah. Hopeless.

Here's the current list — Michael

Damn, Ben Carson is only about a dozen sudden deaths away from the presidency. Frightening.

The current Republican Party is not, in fact, ‘the Republican Party’. They’ve become ‘the Trump cult’. He, meanwhile, is utterly convinced that he’s untouchable - that he can ‘tweet the law away’.

Personally, I hope (and believe) he’s going to get charged with perjury and that he won’t see out his term.

Impeachment will not prevail, as long as the economy is having such a huge rally.

It's just a matter of finding the right candidate for the next person in the office. Hopefully a woman.

Hopefully a woman. — Wallows

Why?

Why? — Michael

Just for a change, ya know? Republicans being manly men and all. Democrats need to appeal to women t hoist up the base for the upcoming elections.

IMO, if the democrats stopped playing identity politics they would win by a landslide. Hillary was telling us that one of her merits was that she is a woman at the same time she was colluding with the DNC leadership to screw over Bernie Sanders. It would be neat and all to have a female president, but voting on emotion on is the mistake I hoped Americans would learn from electing Trump in the first place.

Personally, I hope (and believe) he’s going to get charged with perjury and that he won’t see out his term. — Wayfarer

There's no way that's going to happen even if he gets charged with perjury today. They could easily tie that up with all sorts of legal stalls--plus it would take forever even without intentional stalls. No way that would get done in less than two years at this point.

Democrats need to put their focus on who they're going to run against Trump and just how they're going to successfully market that person so they can win. They should be getting started on this already. It's really pretty foolish to wait until four-five months before the election (which practically means that they need a narrow stable of candidates now and they need to develop marketing strategies for all of them now).

Trying to win via getting rid of or somehow handicapping Trump isn't going to work. You're not going to get rid of him quickly enough (if at all), and he's basically impossible to handicap. If Democrats can't make a candidate seem more appealing on his/her own merits, Trump will win again.

Neither the DOJ or any state or local entity is going to charge a sitting President with any crime - maybe and I say maybe with the exception of some violent crime.

The house is not going to impeach the President as long as it seems very unlikely the Senate would confirm the finding. Which we are a very far way from.

IMO - these are both good things for the country - If somehow Trump was impeached - it would just make him a martyr to his base. The country needs to defeat Trump in the next election - and show him and the world we have not completely lost our minds as a country.

One can hope anyway.

Your view makes sense, providing Trump did not deal with the Russians. If he did, then your view is a mistake. I think the "world" has taken his measure, and impeachment will restore some of the lost trust and respect.

Btw, presidents don't get indicted. As I read it, if the President murders someone, he must first be removed from office, then arrested, indicted, tried.

Art. 3 Sec. 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Btw, presidents don't get indicted. As I read it, if the President murders someone, he must first be removed from office, then arrested, indicted, tried. — tim wood

it is not a set rule - but agree it would be near impassible to indict a sitting president.

Your view makes sense, providing Trump did not deal with the Russians. If he did, then your view is a mistake. I think the "world" has taken his measure, and impeachment will restore some of the lost trust and respect. — tim wood

- equally valid. All things in the fullness of time I guess. Hope we don't have to wait too long for the fullness of time to be done with Donald Trump

Democrats need to put their focus on who they're going to run against Trump and just how they're going to successfully market that person so they can win. — Terrapin Station

Actually, the Republicans need to figure out how to get rid of Trump and get someone respectable to run in his place, in time for the next election. Impeachment might be a good option.

Actually, the Republicans need to figure out how to get rid of Trump and get someone respectable to run in his place, — Metaphysician Undercover

Republicans who don't like Trump, you mean?

Actually, the Republicans need to figure out how to get rid of Trump and get someone respectable to run in his place, in time for the next election. — Metaphysician Undercover

How about Mueller? :wink:

Can't be ... too ironic. Though you might be onto something there, truth always proves to be stranger than fiction.

This thread won't be speculative much longer. My expectations are calibrated for disappointment.

IMO - these are both good things for the country - If somehow Trump was impeached - it would just make him a martyr to his base. The country needs to defeat Trump in the next election - and show him and the world we have not completely lost our minds as a country. — Rank Amateur

Yea, I vote for this. Trump would excel at playing the martyr role. It would give him a story line to build on for years to come. He'd probably start his own TV network and use the martyr drama to elevate the next Trump.

What concerns me about all the investigations is that if Trump feels trapped he may not give up the office if he loses the election. He may invent some new "emergency" to justify staying. Right now he's largely immune from prosecution, but if he loses the election he could go to jail.

My other concern is that I'm not sure the Dems are capable of putting up a winning candidate. We'll see....

I genuinely think the main problem is less that America is insane for voting for Trump but rather that between Hillary, Cruz, Sanders and Trump, you're really screwed no matter who you choose. The political powers that be need to get their act together and put a candidate forward that isn't a complete disaster. I also don't know if you can blame Americans too much, American democracy is suspect and the Russians are not the problem.

The prospect of his indictment is only as interesting as the competency of the person who might replace him. If you say it can't be worse then you're just asking for it.

I genuinely think the main problem is less that America is insane for voting for Trump but rather that between Hillary, Cruz, Sanders and Trump, you're really screwed no matter who you choose. — Judaka

Personally, I don't think Sanders was a complete disaster, though I would agree he has weaknesses as a candidate, mostly his angry all the time personality.

As example, Sanders suggested we provide free college for all, paid for my the super rich. You know, it's the 21st century, a high school education doesn't cut it anymore. This was a wise policy that would have benefited many and hurt no one. The super rich wouldn't miss the money.

We might observe how most of the Democratic candidates are now scrambling to claim at least some segment of Sander's vision as their own. He's been talking about these things for decades when no one would listen. He never changed his tune to cater to the fads of the moment.

Anyway, not a perfect candidate, but surely not a disaster.

Hopefully Mueller discovered that it's ridiculous that we're spending so much time on this sort of nonsense rather than figuring out how to directly, practically make a positive difference in folks' lives.

The country needs to defeat Trump in the next election - and show him and the world we have not completely lost our minds as a country. — Rank Amateur

But you have and we see it and it’s not Trump.

The political powers that be need to get their act together and put a candidate forward that isn't a complete disaster. — Judaka

Biden?

So what the fuck has been going on in those secretive meetings (since 2017) between Trump and Putin?

It's worth noting that the Mueller enquiry has already resulted in people being sentenced to jail, including Trump's lawyer and campaign manager, and that Cohen is going to jail for lying to Congress to protect Trump ('Individual 1').

The Mueller investigation has been an unmitigated success in exposing political corruption. In the case of Paul Manafort, the corruption was criminal. In the case of Trump, the corruption doesn’t seem to have transgressed any laws. As Michael Kinsley famously quipped, “The scandal isn’t what’s illegal; the scandal is what’s legal.” Lying to the electorate, adjusting foreign policy for the sake of personal lucre, and undermining an investigation seem to me pretty sound impeachable offenses—they might also happen to be technically legal.

Trump’s motive for praising Putin appears to have been, in large part, commercial. With his relentless pursuit of Trump Tower Moscow, the Republican nominee for president had active commercial interests in Russia that he failed to disclose to the American people. In fact, he explicitly and shamelessly lied about them. As Trump’s former personal attorney Michael Cohen implied in his congressional testimony, Trump ran his campaign as something of an infomercial, hoping to convince the Russians that he was a good partner. To enrich himself, Trump promised to realign American foreign policy.

This is the very definition of corruption, and it provides the plot line that runs through the entirety of Trump’s political life. The president never chooses to distinguish—and indeed, may be temperamentally incapable of distinguishing—his personal interests from the national interest. Why has he failed so consistently to acknowledge Russian interference in the election? Because that interference was designed to benefit him. Why did he fire James Comey and, let’s use the word, obstruct the investigation into election interference? Because he wanted to protect himself from any investigation that might turn up material that reflected badly on him and his circle. (And whatever Mueller’s ultimate conclusion about collusion, his investigation has proved to be an unending source of damning revelations about the president and the men who constituted his closest advisers. )

The Atlantic

So, now, the report says that Trump didn't literally pick up the telephone and ask for Putin's help. But he said it on live television - 'Russia, are you listening?' - and concocted a letter with his eldest son to conceal the intent of a meeting with Russian agents to secure political advantage. His organisation blatantly worked with Julian Assange to publish email dumps illegally obtained by Russian hackers for political advantage. All of this is documented and in the public domain, it's hiding in plain sight.

But as we have learned over and over with Trump, you can't shame someone who has no shame. And he's so successfully muddied the waters and lowered the bars, that again everyone but him and his enablers will be the ones that are burned.

and his enablers — Wayfarer

Putin?