This is not a deep question. Obviously the decent thing to do is to offer to return the ring. And as far as I know, there is no legal obligation to do so. What more is to be said?

Contact the one who sold you the model railroad is the obvious choice.

But consider; are you wealthy enough that you can have a good life without the worth of the ring. Are the seller wealthy enough to have a good life without the worth of the ring? Does the ring have emotional value to you? Does the ring have emotional value to the seller?

If you were poor and the seller wealthy, it's in some ways morally wrong to keep the ring, but it's also not. If you were poor and kept the ring and the seller doesn't need it's worth but it has an emotional value, it's in my view more morally wrong to keep it.

The basic question is about our value of owning things and the emotional attachment to our things.
But because you don't know if the seller is wealthy enough and you do not know if the ring has emotional value, there is only one rational and decent choice and that is to contact the previous owner.

You cannot make a subjective and personal choice on what the truth is in order to make a moral judgement, you need the truth in order to make it. Sometimes that demands you to sacrifice something for the good of how humanity as a whole should function morally, like if the seller didn't even know that there was a ring there and didn't own it to begin with, it's your loss and the sellers gain, but such an outcome puts the moral choice on the seller while you have done what should be considered the better moral choice.

Well said - thanks for the feedback.

Another thought - sentimental value and monetary value often differ. I have a 45 RPM record given to me by my late brother. It is not valuable money-wise but means a lot to me.

What are your thoughts on the ethics of me keeping or returning the ring? — Sam Sam

Not a simple question. If a store makes a mistake in selling you something, it can recover. You pick up a $2000 refrigerator from Sears, for example, and they charge you $8.99; they can come after it and likely you don't get to keep it. You don't get to profit by another's error - there are some devils in the details.

A yard sale, it seems to me, is not a store. Yet something could have been added to your lot in error, or without the seller's knowledge. If, for example, he was selling model train stuff that you bought, and you just happened to know that the train equipment was worth more than the selling price, it seems to me that's what yard sales are in part about, the possibility of a seeming bargain. Caveat emptor, caveat venditor!

An error in selling something is different, however, from mis-valuing the thing sold. I argue you have to contact the seller, and determine the owner. If it's an error, then the owner still has an interest - not necessarily the seller.

The Kantian imperative is to so act that the maxim of your action could be universal law. If you can just keep the ring, then implicitly you're on board with your losing title to whatever of yours is similarly sold, which is not really how the world works, notwithstanding how some people think.

Two other versions Kant's imperative add some clarity: don't use people as means, only as ends in themselves. So act that everyone may be included in a kingdom of ends. These insure that even if by the first rule you're willing that everyone be as big a scoundrel as you might be, the second and third rule that out. In short, be fair, play nice, be nice!

The trick lies in acknowledging what may be difficult to both understand and acknowledge. If the ring was sold in error, than you have no interest in it, no more than if it had been stolen and sold to you. If the ring has significant value, then the question of whether it was sold in error becomes significant - who owns it? Who sold it? How did it come to be sold? What were the terms of the sale?

This was most likely unintended. If the ring, forget the diamond, were worth anything close to the cost of the most expensive non-ring object in the box, it's likely to have been an error. Who gives up such things and fails to wink at the buyer saying, "Oh, there's a little surprise in there that you are sure to be grateful to have?"

Men almost never wear diamond rings...women do. Women lose diamond rings off their fingers all the time. Seriously. The come off reaching into laundry machines, handling items in stores, reaching into grocery bags... How could a diamond ring end up in a box of items you purchased for much less than the value of the ring, diamond included this time?

As the person just above has said, treat people with dignity (one of Kant's principles if not stated quite that way). Kant also talked of the Good Will. How should you be oriented to people in a way you wouldn't like them to be oriented to YOU?

I have never forgotten the occasion when, just prior to my first year of university, I dropped a wad of money bills from my pants pocket. Desperately, I went to the store's lost and found desk an hour later and found, to my sober and grateful relief, that a well-intentioned person demonstrated concretely what Good Will really means.

Not the most taxing of ethical dilemmas. Do what you would wish be done unto you, which (fantastical scenarios aside) is obvious.

Thanks Tim - interesting, thoughtful, and useful

Not that it makes a different, but the ring was in a little box, so did not fall off a finger.

Sam, that changes things somewhat. For me, though, it would be little. I would still offer the small courtesy, if that is all it turns out to be, of asking if the ring was an intended part of the box's contents. It's the right thing to do. Thing is, you won't know unless you actually determine that it's the right thing...by having asked. If he/she insists it's part of the deal, you can enjoy it any way you wish materially or spiritually secure that it is truly yours.

Just a couple of thoughts.

If someone asked you if the ring they had found in a box of junk you just sold to them is yours, what would you say?
If you were hard pressed for money you might say yes even if you had no idea who the ring belonged to.
The person you bought the box from might not have known it was there when he found it at another yard sale.

Is the ring really valuable, if it is the a local jeweler might recognize it. If not, is it worth the trouble to find the owner. Not all diamonds are not all valuable, and some things that look like diamonds are not.

If you are going to return it, at least make sure it goes to the rightful owner. They should be able to give a proper description of it and maybe even draw it for you. A photo of someone wearing it it would be better. You could just tell them that you found a little box containing something without mentioning its possible monetary value. Maybe show them a picture of the box. If they can prove it is their ring, give it to them.

If they have no idea what is in the box or who it belongs to, then I doubt anyone would complain about you turning it into the police or even keeping it.

There is a local buying and selling farcebook page where I live, people often post photos of things lost and found on it, maybe there is one where you live.

I recently bought a box of model railroad stuff at a yard sale, and when I got home, I found a diamond ring in there. What are your thoughts on the ethics of me keeping or returning the ring? — Sam Sam

Why do you ask? My thoughts on the ethics of it would reach the same conclusion as most others, but that wouldn't stop me from keeping the ring in order to sell if I found out that it was worth a significant sum of money. What would stop me is if I thought I'd get myself in some kind of trouble.

What makes you think most others see it that way? You may be right, I am just curious how you reached that conclusion.

What makes you think most others see it that way? You may be right, I am just curious how you reached that conclusion. — Sam Sam

Because I know people well enough to accurately predict how they would judge a matter such as this, in simple ethical terms. And likely so do you. There's not much to be curious about in that, unless it is lead somewhere deeper. If you or I were an extraterrestrial who had just discovered the people of Earth, then maybe you or I would lack this ability.

I have asked many people I know what they think - it is about 50-50 keep/return

Sam, that is my ring. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I was looking at railroad parts for my son, it's his hobby. I know it is my ring because I left the house after putting it on, went to the sale and returned home. I am not sure how my ring got into a box because it actually fell off my finger as I have recently lost weight and it is so loose I was afraid it might fall off and it did. I am enclosing a picture of my ring, that I believe is now in your possession and I would really like to arrange picking it up at your earliest convenience. The ring is an heirloom of my Great Grandmother's, it was her wedding ring and it was passed down to me.

I contacted my home owners insurance company because I have a rider on my policy and they will reimburse me up to $5k for the loss but I have to file a claim and they are asking if I have retraced my steps in trying to find it. The reimbursement from my insurance company would cover the replacement of the actual stone and setting but nothing will replace the years of my Great Grandmother wearing it in a successful marriage of 50 years to my Gramps.

Please compare this photo with the ring you have in your possession just to confirm my recollection:


Wishing for a quick return of a beloved piece of jewelry

I am not sure if I should take your post seriously. Anyway, it was in small box inside another small box, so it did not fall off a finger.

I have never forgotten the occasion when, just prior to my first year of university, I dropped a wad of money bills from my pants pocket. Desperately, I went to the store's lost and found desk an hour later and found, to my sober and grateful relief, that a well-intentioned person demonstrated concretely what Good Will really means. — gloaming

gloaming, your experience helps me to restore my faith in humanity. I sometimes wonder if all the good I try to give the world is ever received the way it was intended. I don't usually stick around to see the outcome of my random acts of kindness or those moral/ethical dilemmas that aren't really a challenge for me, I just do what I would want someone to do for me, if the tables will were turned and have to believe that will be enough.

I am not sure if I should take your post seriously. Anyway, it was in small box inside another small box, so it did not fall off a finger. — Sam Sam

I do wish you to consider my post seriously but only if you wish for this is a hypothetical and I was just wanting to add another layer that is a possibility and was curious how you would handle it if you had the ring still or if you had sold it.

Asking for a picture would settle it right quick.
As I stated, I am not sure how my ring wound up in a box, contained within a box of railroad parts but I can tell you that I am quite sure my ring fell off my finger while digging through a box of railroad parts earlier.
Could you please post a picture of the ring you have in your possession?

I have asked many people I know what they think - it is about 50-50 keep/return. — Sam Sam

In more casual terms of what you should or would do, that would be closer to what I would predict. But, sticking to explicit ethical terminology, if you think that most people would say that the decent thing to do would be to keep it, then you can quite easily be demonstrated to be mistaken through polling. I think that the replies here will be fairly representative of the replies you'll get in general.

I don't see a button to upload a photo - how did you do it?

You must be in pretty bad company. If it wasn't intended for you as part of the transaction, to keep it would be to steal it. There's no ethical ambiguity here.

On a similar note, someone I know lost their phone recently. It was on so we could trace it, but before we could get to it, some thief picked it up and stole it. Maybe he's on an internet forum somewhere now trying to find justification for his action...

but that wouldn't stop me from keeping the ring in order to sell if I found out that it was worth a significant sum of money. What would stop me is if I thought I'd get myself in some kind of trouble. — Sapientia

? If someone walking in front of you dropped their wallet and no-one but you saw (so there was no issue of you getting into trouble), would you pick it up, check there was a significant amount of cash in it and then pocket it if there was?

? If someone walking in front of you dropped their wallet and no-one but you saw (so there was no issue of you getting into trouble), would you pick it up, check there was a significant amount of cash in it and then pocket it if there was? — Baden

It could go either way. Maybe I would do something nice on an impulse. But most likely I wouldn't be a mug and would pocket the wonga.

You better hope it's not me and I look around mate! Seriously though, I expected you to have a bit more of a social conscience on that one considering your general political views. It's not being a mug not to steal someone's wallet ffs. I mean, really... *Shakes Sapientia vigorously to remove the evil spirits *

*Shakes Sapientia vigorously to remove the evil spirits * — Baden

That just ain't gonna work, try holy water or fire.

I'm liking that fire idea... :fire: :fire: :death:

You better hope it's not me and I look around mate! — Baden

I'd just use my invisibility cloak.

Sure, you can call it stealing, which it technically is, but it's not quite the same as stealing it off of his person. He lost it, that's on him. If it's up for grabs, then I'd rather it be me that ends up a couple hundred quid better off than the next guy who comes along and takes it for himself. It pays to look after number one.

The harsh truth is that sometimes doing the "right thing" means being a mug. It comes at a cost. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, and I'd have that money.

I've lost valuables before. We all have. It's just one of those things. I'd be mad at myself instead of being a hypocrite and blaming the other person for doing what I would've done - what many people would do.

I'd have to be pretty desperate to think myself a mug for not stealing someone's wallet. Maybe if I was homeless and starving, I'd have a greater responsibility to look after myself. But I'm just another spoiled westerner reaping the benefits of being born in a highly developed country. The harsh truth is that having some moral self-respect is much more important than having an extra bit of unnecessary cash on hand. It also undermines calls for a fairer tax system, which I would think being a lefty you support. Wouldn't those who don't benefit directly from that be right in thinking themselves "mugs" to agree with it? I know what it is, you've turned into a Tory...

Christ, if everything is about short-sighted self-interest, let's just continue selling arms to Saudi Arabia so they can bomb school buses. After all, we'd be mugs not to take the money. This is BS Sap.