I think the safest way for me to answer such an absurd question — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Why is it an absurd question? The fact that you don't want to answer it doesn't make it absurd, just uncomfortable. It's a live possibility with Trump, and even if it wasn't, the answer should be easy. I mean, if someone said to me, "Would you continue to support Bernie Sanders if it turned out he called blacks the N-word? Or Jeremy Corbyn if it turned out he called Jews, kikes" (or name your leftie and your racial slur) my answer would be an unequivocal "No, of course I wouldn't". I'd drop them in a second. I don't see the difficulty here. Supporting obvious (as posed in the hypothetical) racists, anti-semites etc, is wrong. What's the problem saying that? Why play games with it?

And no, Trump is not going to change that, ArguingWAristotleTiff — Baden

Nor am I expecting Trump to be able reverse time and what the ACA did to our medical community, no one can.

What's the problem saying that? Why play games with it? — Baden

Because it is not a game for me and I am not going to play this Trump "Gotcha" game with you.
I am being bluntly honest with you when I say I am VERY uncomfortable with your sweeping judgement on others being different kinds of "ist's" and it shuts down communication every time you do it. I do not wish to be labeled and I am very cautious with my allowing your feelings into mine right now. I do not wish to depart the forums over a "label" being applied to me.

I don't buy you being a victim of anything here, Tiff. But your answer is clear from this. That is very sad for you imho.

And by the way, my judgement is just my judgement (that that would count as being to some degree racist), people are going to come down differently on this issue. I'm not claiming to have the last word on it. But, yes, voting someone in who would call your fellow citizens the N-word, that's a position that I wouldn't have expected of you if it's the case.

I don't buy you being a victim of anything here, Tiff. But your answer is clear from this. That is very sad for you. — Baden

I am not a victim of anything Baden, nor will I allow myself to be labeled as such. I am remaining and will remain in a pro-active position on this. You are right it is only your judgement but it is a judgement all the same which you are entitled to.
What you are not entitled to is label me a racist.
And if you think you are? That is YOUR problem, not mine.

Please, it is not lost on me as to the reasons others have been banned or willing left the forum based on this very issue of labeling others.

So no, I will not fall victim. I will stand strong in that a person should be judged by a totality of their actions and not one action alone.

I'm not sure how to interpret that. You mean you would pro-actively support Trump if he calls black people the N-word? Where would your line be then? What would he have to do to lose your support?

Please, it is not lost on me as to the reasons others have been banned or willing left the forum based on this very issue of labeling others. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

You're not going to be in danger of being banned for saying you would vote for Trump even if he calls blacks the N-word. And I never expected you to take that position when I first said I thought it was to a degree racist (it's not directly racist and not a mod issue). But again, it's not about your feelings. Try to imagine your fellow black citizens reading this and how they would feel at you implying you would vote for someone who considers them "niggers".

It's why I find a 52% income tax acceptable. — Benkei

That's a lot. I pay 20% on whatever I earn between £11,501 - £45,000.

National insurance on top of that though, right?

National insurance on top of that though, right? — Baden

Good point. If I'm understanding this correctly, it's 12% of whatever I earn between £702 and £3,862 a month.

Might be easier to just look at my last payslip. Income tax + NI was 20.1% of my pay.

Income tax + NI + student loan + pension = 25.15%.

So how does the tax rate compare with America? Unless it's significantly lower over there, what's the rationale against single payer healthcare? No need for insurance, it's universal, and seemingly better quality.

And there's always the option for private healthcare on top (e.g. Bupa).

N word makes no difference. It's consumer confidence in the 3rd quarter of his third year in office. If it's up, he'll probably be re-elected.

That's sad if true. Can't wrap my head around it. But then I don't live there and you do.

It's not a popularity contest. It's politics. I'm reading a book on political theory for noobies. What's been your exposure to political theory?

Don't be a [self-censored]. In Western Europe, along with, I can fairly confidently add, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, use of the N word by a national leader would result in resigning in disgrace followed by unelectability (if they ever dared run for anything again). Last time I looked we had politics over here too. What's your exposure to anywhere outside America?

Goodness, we're touchy.

Got an answer to the question? Did you really presume that use of the N-word was acceptable by national leaders of developed countries around the world? Really?

I thought the word was American in origin. Do non-American English speakers use it?

I thought the word was American in origin. Do non-American English speakers use it? — frank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger#Etymology_and_history

"The variants neger and negar derive from the Spanish and Portuguese word negro (black), and from the now-pejorative French nègre. Etymologically, negro, noir, nègre, and nigger ultimately derive from nigrum, the stem of the Latin niger (black) (pronounced [ˈniɡer] which, in every other grammatical case, grammatical gender, and grammatical number besides nominative masculine singular, is nigr- followed by a case ending, the r is trilled).

In its original English language usage, nigger (then spelled niger) was a word for a dark-skinned individual. The earliest known published use of the term dates from 1574, in a work alluding to "the Nigers of Aethiop, bearing witnes". According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first derogatory usage of the term nigger was recorded two centuries later, in 1775."

That 1775 reference being a song sang during the American Revolution:

"The rebel clowns, oh! what a sight! Too awkward was their figure. 'Twas yonder stood a pious wight, And here and there a nigger."

Yes, they do. So... You thought that if, for example, Theresa May was caught on tape using the N-word or whatever you thought the British equivalent was, she wouldn't have to resign, and the British people would just shrug their shoulders and look at the consumer confidence index or whatever it is? Because that's politics everywhere. I'm asking if you really thought that.

Honestly, I've never thought about Theresa May using the N-word. LOL.

It's mostly American in origin.

You get the point though. We have different backgrounds and different things seem obvious to us. It seems obvious to you that voters don't care (much) about their leaders being racist. It seems obvious to me that they do. What you've got to realize though is that America is exceptional here. There really is no other advanced democracy I can think of where a leader could survive re-election after using the N-word* (if Trump really could. I concede the possibility I may be wrong about that though I still would bet he wouldn't.)

*If anyone can think of one, let me know.

Maybe America is just significantly more racist and tolerant of racism than I thought. I'm open to being moved on this. It's just not a direction I like being moved in. But there you are. Reality isn't always comfortable for any of us.

Maybe America is just significantly more racist and tolerant of racism than I thought. I'm open to being moved on this. It's just not a direction I like being moved in. But there you are. Reality isn't always comfortable for any of us. — Baden

Indeed. It's just a bunch of raving white supremacists over here. Even those of us who are part black can't help ourselves: those confederate flags are just so handsome.

My guess as to why you're so interested in the question is that you're experiencing a interest-void at the moment. As soon as your attention wanders on to your Next Big Thing, the US and all its coarse oddity will slide from your field of vision like a bad dream.

Indeed. It's just a bunch of raving white supremacists over here. Even those of us who are part black can't help ourselves: those confederate flags are just so handsome. — frank

Why do you respond to serious comments with sarcastic shit-posts? What do you achieve by it?

My guess as to why you're so interested in the question is that you're experiencing a interest-void at the moment. As soon as your attention wanders on to your Next Big Thing, the US and all its coarse oddity will slide from your field of vision like a bad dream. — frank

Ok, well that's just another highly ignorant comment. I've been very interested in international politics since I started on old PF close to ten years ago. That's not going to change.

How come when you actually create something of value you make a fraction of the CEO, who's really no more than a glorified paper pusher? — Benkei

Chief executive pay jumps 11% to almost £4m last year

:shade:

If you're white, then racism isn't a real problem to you. — Benkei

Not true. It's a real problem for all of us.

Didn't get around to addressing that but yes, just like any serious ethical issue we take a side on. That should go without saying.