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https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/2000/known-knowns-known-unknowns-and-unknown-unknowns

So, does the fact that you can feel like god, in your dreamworld, and create, fly, or do pretty much anything you want some roundabout proof that the concept of 'God-hood' is actual? — Posty McPostface

I've had lucid dreams and I don't know if I'd say I felt like a God. In a lot of ways my lucid dreams were very much bound up with my desire and the play of my imagination. And, as remarkable as it may sound to be able to change the experience of the world I'm in, I could always tell it was a dream ,and the dream always mirrored things I'd already seen.

Nothing was ex nihilo.

Furthermore I'd say that there is something about dreaming which is deeply personal and semi-spiritual, as has been discussed already. But these are human needs.

The dreamworld, as I've experienced it at least, seems to be so thoroughly human that I don't think it proves the concept of "God-hood" as something which is actual, or even coherent. Not that this is a disproof, either -- I just don't think it's related.

So, then where does the will originate from? Educate me as I'm not that well read in Schopenhauer's philosophy, although I should be. — Posty McPostface

The not-so Mad fool, used the interesting analogy of a mirror containing an infinite array of reflections in dispute of the possibility of a material self containing an infinite number of potential-selfs vis: thought meta thought meta-meta-thought and so on.

I don't see how having meta-thoughts lead to the self multiplying. Two mirrors parallel to each other have infinite images but there are still only two mirrors. — TheMadFool

Schopenhauer approaches this notion in respect of 'will' which is the antecedent or initial 'form' of thought.

Schopenhauer writes:

"Now if we ask whether the will itself is free, we are asking whether it is in conformity with itself; and this of course is self evident, but it also tells us nothing. As a result of the empirical concept of freedom we have: I am free if I can do what I will, and the freedom is decided by this 'what I will'. But now since we are asking about the freedom of willing itself, this question should accordingly be expressed as follows: 'Can you also will what you will?' This appears as if the willing depended on yet another willing lying behind it. And supposing that this question were answered in the affirmative , there would soon arise the second question: Can you also will what you will to will?' And thus it would be pushed back to an infinity..."

The actuated will, the final thought that emerges as 'me' or 'my thought', has an infinite array of antecedent wills, a infinity of 'selfs' that culminate in the temporal but transient fixation of the pleasing and precious delusion of an 'I' singular.

M

I've had lucid dreams and I don't know if I'd say I felt like a God — Moliere

Well it's nonsensical to talk about feeling like God. But for all intents and purposes you were tantamount to being a god, at least. That's what I meant.

Nothing was ex nihilo. — Moliere

Is that important in some way? Dreams are self generated content, at least to the highest degree possible.

The dreamworld, as I've experienced it at least, seems to be so thoroughly human that I don't think it proves the concept of "God-hood" as something which is actual, or even coherent. Not that this is a disproof, either -- I just don't think it's related. — Moliere

Why not related? You have something tantamount to the power of a deity in a lucid dream. How is that not related?

This appears as if the willing depended on yet another willing lying behind it. And supposing that this question were answered in the affirmative , there would soon arise the second question: Can you also will what you will to will?' And thus it would be pushed back to an infinity..." — Marcus de Brun

Nice!

The will, it seems is a question of the ability to make choices and choosing or willing does seem to lead to infinity.

But...

If the infinite regress is to make sense the choices too must make sense. Does it?

Can we make sense of ''I want to want to want... ''?

There is a possibility there but is it actual? Could it just be an illusion?

Well it's nonsensical to talk about feeling like God. But for all intents and purposes you were tantamount to being a god, at least. That's what I meant. — Posty McPostface

What's the difference such that being a God is sensical, and feeling like God is nonsensical?

Is that important in some way? Dreams are self generated content, at least to the highest degree possible. — Posty McPostface

I suppose it depends on what one means by God. If we mean something akin to Zeus then maybe not. It just seems like everything depended on their being a world I have no control over -- that the real world is always first anyways, and the dreamworld is secondary to it.

Why not related? You have something tantamount to the power of a deity in a lucid dream. How is that not related? — Posty McPostface

I don't see it like that, I suppose. Just because experience changes doesn't mean I'm the creator of reality. I know it is a dream, after all, and not real. Or, the reality that it has is that of a dreamworld, in the way that my imagination has a kind of reality but it doesn't change the world I live in. Further, the dreamworld is bound to both my desires, which are part of the world, and even the experiences themselves are derivative of having the sort of experience that humans have, of a world where I have no control. I can change the scenery, so to speak, but it is always of the world I actually live in.

The will, in its capacity as the initiator of motivation MUST come before the "I" . therefore it is incorrect to speak of an "I want" there is a 'want' and THEN there becomes a thinking 'I'.

This is also the basis of Schopenhauer's determinist view. If we accept his view here, it follows that we cannot escape a determined universe. It is interesting that Bell reconciles his inequality and quantum behaviors, through an application of determinist or "super-determined" philosophy in accordance with Schopenhauer.