lucid dreaming — Posty McPostface

Never experienced that but the point is dreams seem so real and we have to wake up in the real world to realize we were dreaming.

In other words we can't distinguish a dream world from the real world. This leads to the question ''is the world we assume to be real also a dream?''

Lucid dreams feel more real than reality. That much is true from experience. Where do we go from there?

It could be. One wonders.

What do you think it implies?

Being "aware" that one is dreaming is interesting in the sense that it is an example of meta-thought, thought upon thought.

One might ask, within the context of meta-thought can one be aware that one is aware that one is dreaming? Within this apparently infinite expansion one approaches Schopenhauer's 'Will to Will'.

Here is an example of the freedoms that are maintained within a super determined universe. The process of transition from thought to meta thought to meta-meta thought and so on, is the fundamental essence of meditation, both ancient and modern. This process attempts the impossibility of a union with pure consciousness and "god" by all definitions is 'pure consciousness'. God in this sense resides outside of the determined nature of a predictable material universe. God as such is pure thought AND pure freedom. In keeling with Buddhism and other proponents of a meditative approach to God, is the disciplined aspiration beyond the material and towards pure reason and pure consciousness.

M

Indeed, thanks for sharing.

I do know that Buddhism treats dreams with a sort of negative connotation of arising due to the undisciplined mind; but, what about lucid dreams? I do know that the Hindu scriptures have another take on the matter; but, am not well read enough to comment on their conception of transcendence or whatnot to the matter.

How do you know that you are not simply experiencing disciplined meditation during the process of lucid dreams? You don't need a yum yum tree and a shaved head to have disciplined meditation. Discipline in respect of lucid dreams might simply encompass the lucidity itself.

At the risk of being laughed off the forum, I'd say that it suggests that the real world is less than we make it out to be. A dream can sometimes say more than a real world situation can say. The psychological explanation is nice, but it's just the technicality of the spiritual reality.

I have a lot of vivid dreams. I had a dream awhile ago that my brother was standing about a stone's throw away from me. But he was unreachable. Why? I don't know. It was just a dream. But was it? Whatever the psychological explanation is is fine, but it won't satisfy the emotions that accompanied the dream. When I think back to that dream, it's twilight setting, and the love that my brother was sending, and yet his inaccessibility...it's a feeling more powerful than any feeling I've felt in waking life in years. So what does that mean?

How do you know that you are not simply experiencing disciplined meditation during the process of lucid dreams? — Marcus de Brun

I'm not entirely sure. I feel as though, lucid dreams are the pinnacle of spirituality due to the holistic aspect of the mind unifying with all other aspects of the mind. One is, so to speak, in total immersion with all the aspects of the mind (ID, ego, super-ego?) instead of an artificial separation or suppression of the animistic aspects during meditation and such.

Good psychoanalysis will provide the reasoning for the dream itself. However the process dreaming is the practical experience of freedom in that it is independent of the materially determined universe. You may not be free to influence the material nature of his and your existence, however you are free to dream and to feel, and to contemplate upon dream thought.

I agree lucid dreams ...,
"the pinnacle of spirituality"

Nice phrase.

I think we are in agreement.

There's a few grammatical errors in your post, but I actually like how poetic it sounds as it is. :up:

I've had some psychoanalysis; was it good? Eh, I would say not so much. The result is that I'm pretty pessimistic about psychoanalysis. That's both my loss, and psychoanalysises loss. Whatever. Psychology is constantly changing. What my therapist of two years ago thought was wise is probably no longer thought to be wise. There's no wisdom in psychotherapy. The psyche needs more than physical therapy.

At the risk of being laughed off the forum, I'd say that it suggests that the real world is less than we make it out to be. — Noble Dust

I can relate. I feel as though the mind is much more compartmentalized during waking reality, whereas during a dream everything has the chance to emerge into one's conscious aspect of the mind.

I have a certain amount of reverence for dreams. I had a profound dream a long time ago about getting lost on the trip to the peak of the "mountain", whatever that may mean to you. In my opinion this mountain, from which I got separated from my family was a sort of journey in life. I found myself wandering in a forest filled with strange ghosts, plants, and whatnot.

What I gathered from that dream was that the shortest way around the mountain was through it, actually tunneling through it. I still have no idea what that could possibly mean. Quantum tunneling?

I have a lot of vivid dreams. I had a dream awhile ago that my brother was standing about a stone's throw away from me. But he was unreachable. Why? — Noble Dust

At risk of misinterpreting you here, and that's just a given, I think it's maybe your dream telling you that you're growing distant from him?

It was just a dream. But was it? — Noble Dust

No, it wasn't *just* a dream. That's what I hate about reality. It demeans and treats these almost lifelike experiences into something trite or illusory, which they aren't. Dreams are magical.

Whatever the psychological explanation is is fine, but it won't satisfy the emotions that accompanied the dream. When I think back to that dream, it's twilight setting, and the love that my brother was sending, and yet his inaccessibility...it's a feeling more powerful than any feeling I've felt in waking life in years. So what does that mean? — Noble Dust

I really wish I knew the answer to this question. These are highly individualistic and personalized messages from the deep-end of your conscious being.

Please excuse the grammar I am using one of these ludicrous not-so-smart-phones

Schopenhauer's 'Will to Will'. — Marcus de Brun

Can you expand on this Marcus?

Oh it's not a problem at all; I'm sorry if my comment was offensive. I just literally found your use of grammar to be somewhat artistic and interesting. I'm sorry if that's out of line.

When there is more than one person in the therapy, psychoanalysis generally begins to fail.

When there is more than one person in the therapy, psychoanalysis generally begins to fail. — Marcus de Brun

Hurrah, solipsism!

no probs noble and thank you for your kindness it (kindness) is both precious and rare. I am not easily offended, often offense can be quite informative. :)

I prefer Spinoza to solip ism.

I prefer Spinoza to solipism. — Marcus de Brun

What does that mean?

I can relate. I feel as though the mind is much more compartmentalized during waking reality, whereas during a dream everything has the chance to emerge into one's conscious aspect of the mind. — Posty McPostface

Yup. I haven't done hallucinogens, but what friends have told me about the experience sounds similar to an experience of clear-mindedness that also corresponds to the lucidity of a dream that feels very real.

I have a certain amount of reverence for dreams. I had a profound dream a long time ago about getting lost on the trip to the peak of the "mountain", whatever that may mean to you. In my opinion this mountain, from which I got separated from my family was a sort of journey in life. I found myself wandering in a forest filled with strange ghosts, plants, and whatnot.

What I gathered from that dream was that the shortest way around the mountain was through it, actually tunneling through it. I still have no idea what that could possibly mean. Quantum tunneling? — Posty McPostface

These personal dreams are so precious and interesting. When I read your account, I'm interested, but I know that the account you're describing is something so deeply personal and almost weird; even to you yourself. This is the thing that gives such an elegant beauty to dreams; this embarrassing quality.

At risk of misinterpreting you here, and that's just a given, I think it's maybe your dream telling you that you're growing distant from him? — Posty McPostface

It's true that we've grown distant in terms of physical space; but we remain essentially best friends; or, he remains my best friend. He's married, though, so she's his best friend now, I guess. But the emotion of the dream had nothing to do with that at all. It was way, way deeper than that. It was something foundational.

No, it wasn't *just* a dream. That's what I hate about reality. It demeans and treats these almost lifelike experiences into something trite or illusory, which they aren't. Dreams are magical. — Posty McPostface

I agree. Dreams feel more real than waking life.

No problem at all; I on the other hand am very easily offended, and am often unkind. It's nice to have a moment on TPF where we can commune a little; lay back! Nice.

Yup. I haven't done hallucinogens, but what friends have told me about the experience sounds similar to an experience of clear-mindedness that also corresponds to the lucidity of a dream that feels very real. — Noble Dust

Never really done them also. Just tried a mushroom once and that was too overwhelming. Dreams allow me to relax and just let things go as they do. There's nobody judging me or thinking if I will do something stupid and such. My experience with hallucinogens (albight once), was in some sense a realization of how limited and unfree, as I human being, that I am.

These personal dreams are so precious and interesting. When I read your account, I'm interested, but I know that the account you're describing is something so deeply personal and almost weird; even to you yourself. This is the thing that gives such an elegant beauty to dreams; this embarrassing quality. — Noble Dust

Since we're talking about dreams, I also had a special dream about depression. I had a dream that a giant sea creature or some octopus was in this lake I was visiting. It was a strange lake because everything seemed to be black and white. I approached this lake, and the monster grabbed me and was trying to drag me down into the deep with it. I realized that the only way to overcome this monster or 'defeat' it, was through waiting until the water evaporates and 'suffocates' the octopus. Yeah, deep indeed. Nowadays, I throw some food at the monster from a safe distance, and we kind of live happily together. :mask:

It's true that we've grown distant in terms of physical space; but we remain essentially best friends; or, he remains my best friend. He's married, though, so she's his best friend now, I guess. But the emotion of the dream had nothing to do with that at all. It was way, way deeper than that. It was something foundational. — Noble Dust

I guess, dreams can guide you. It sounds like the dream was affirming what was inevitable, that your brother now has another family that he has to tend to... Not sure, just my gibberish on the matter.

I agree. Dreams feel more real than waking life. — Noble Dust

Sometimes, I intentionally sleep more than 10 hours a day, because I like my dreams so much, haha.

Being "aware" that one is dreaming is interesting in the sense that it is an example of meta-thought, thought upon thought. — Marcus de Brun

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Is it some inverted infinite regress? Or knowing the limits of one's world and then stepping forward?

I shall respond tomorrow.

Here's the almighty flower for good dreams: :flower:

Posty

I suspect that you know your monster(s) very well. Certainly you are wise to keep them at a distance, but you have to confront them now and again, even for the simple pleasure of reminding yourself that you are alive... and of course you are right, the water will eventually dry up and the monster will shrivel and die... but the real question is ... what if anything of you will remain?

Shopenhauer's will to will ..anon

M

But, doctor, I get along with my monsters just fine. We have a pact of truce. I leave them alone and they leave me be too. I've accepted my disagnosis. :lol:

I don't think that's entirely true Posty.

I can be a bit monstrous in my own opinions here on this forum at times and you do seem to enjoy breaking a lance with me and other monsters.... And you do seem to have a predilection to joust with monstrous ideas and occasionally monstrous individuals, here on this forum... which I hope (for the sake of my own existence) is outside of your dreams.

You do appear to avoid the 'shoutbox' which appears to be the place where the monsters like to roar at their roars.

M