I long ago felt I had taken ‘the red pill’. But I was really annoyed by the movie itself, because I found the presentation sacreligious, in a way. It was as if it was a parody or send-up of a profound idea, created by someone who really didn’t understand how profound it was. But then, it was only a movie.

[Actually on that note, I once read an insightful analysis of the way that movies like Matrix, Inception, and others of that genre evoke the sense in us of life being like a grand illusion or mirage in which we’re unwittingly trapped. It is a powerful meme with quasi-religious overtones; it’s rather like the gnostic understanding.]

This thread wasn't meant to be an analysis of the Matrix. Its a question about the value of truth. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Does the deluded individual lead a more useless life?

Indubitably. But the idea of truth is not very highly valued nowadays. There’s a thread on that very point at the moment.

The same could be asked about the dreaming dens in Inception. I'd rather stay in the Matrix/the dream. I care more about fulfilling experiences than about what's real. Truth for the sake of truth is pointless. It certainly can be useful for other ends, but in this context I don't think that's applicable.

But the idea of truth is not very highly valued nowadays. — Wayfarer

Yes. The world has recently embraced Nietzsche as the greatest thinker of all time (metaphorically speaking).

Don't be ridiculous. Truth is alive and well. It's the definition of truth that's been deflated.

I care more about fulfilling experiences than about what's real. — Michael

Me too.

If you are a Buddhist and you live in the matrix you will not cause any real beings to suffer, and will therefore not accumulate any bad karma. It's a no-brainer!

Hmmm, being both deluded and miserable could be another option....

But you'd also be out of the loop on making the world a better place.

Hmmm, being both deluded and miserable could be another option.... — allan wallace

Grace requires adversity.

What choice would you make? — frank

Wealth and power in the dreamworld.

Wealth and power in the dreamworld. — Sapientia

I don't understand the appeal of power.

If you are a Buddhist and you live in the matrix you will not cause any real beings to suffer, and will therefore not accumulate any bad karma. It's a no-brainer! — Janus

Yathābhūtaṃ

Dreamworld/Truth, no I don't think so.

Phenomenal/Reality getting closer.

I don't believe there is a hidden reality, I think that what's phenomenal is reality and everything else is an abstraction from that.

I don't understand why you claim not to understand the appeal of power. Both wealth and power are about having more options available to you to take advantage of. That's appealing to many people, even if you're not one of them, at least with regard to the latter.

Phainomena = ‘what appears.’

I don't understand why you claim not to understand the appeal of power. Both wealth and power are about having more options available to you to take advantage of. That's appealing to many people, even if you're not one of them, at least with regard to the latter. — Sapientia

Maybe if you could be less ambiguous with what you mean by power? Are you in a position of authority, like a President? Because the problem with that is that there is a shitload of responsibility that distracts from living a leisurely life.

Maybe if you could be less ambiguous with what you mean by power? Are you in a position of authority, like a President? Because the problem with that is that there is a shitload of responsibility that distracts from living a leisurely life. — Michael

The options weren't that specific, but I suppose that that's a risk, and one which I hadn't considered. It's kind of off putting. But wouldn't similar risks apply on the basis of wealth alone? Are you a lottery winner or a criminal? If the latter, then your wealthy life might be short lived and replaced with a life behind bars.

Why "miserable"? Neo found real love and fought injustice, two of the best things anyone could ever find and the idea of that is so appealing to me. The delusion is misery, living an artificial existence.

100% red pill.

True, but so would the monks who stay in the monastery.

Why "miserable"? Neo found real love and fought injustice, two of the best things anyone could ever find and the idea of that is so appealing to me. The delusion is misery, living an artificial existence.

100% red pill. — TimeLine

People are different. Cypher isn't Neo. And misery isn't what you dictate it to be.

People are different. Cypher isn't Neo. And misery isn't what you dictate it to be. — Sapientia

Cypher didn't get the girl.

Cypher didn't get the girl. — TimeLine

Yes, but people and outcomes are variable to a much greater extent than the characters of Cypher and Neo, and what happened to them in the film.

Yes, but people and outcomes are variable to a much greater extent than the characters Cypher and Neo, and what happened to them in the film. — Sapientia

I agree, but the parallel here is about our state of mind, about the authenticity of our experiences. We can easily find a partner who we are indifferent to but they have a pleasing enough face to help tolerate having sex with, or we can find someone who we genuinely care about and fulfils our experience in life beyond that mere interaction. We can go to work in a dead end job as long as we make money to buy material bullshit and a nice meal until we grow old and die, or we can fight injustice and do something meaningful in our lives.

Are you a lottery winner or a criminal? — Sapientia

Lottery winner, obviously. Or inheritance. Or a savvy investment that I've cashed in.

I care more about fulfilling experiences than about what's real. — Michael

I'd even argue that the deeper premise of the movie is that the real is unknowable. The taking of the pill occurred within the matrix and was just another illusion.

I'd even argue that the deeper premise of the premise is that the real is unknowable. The taking of the pill occurred within the matrix and was just another illusion. — Hanover

It put you in the Matrix; it didn't take you out.

Yeah. Whatever. Flip what I said.

You are forgetting the architect.

You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

If your life is determined, how can you make the choice for one. And two:

The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature.

What makes you think you will have a happy life?