I could start describing my phenomenal state now, looking out the window, hearing the rain, smelling the smells, thinking various thoughts, have various stresses, etc. and after thousands and thousands of pages, I'd still have left something out and you would not experience my experience. You'd just sort of know about it. — Hanover
Such is the theory that given an infinite amount of time we could precisely describe a single thought. Like I said, maybe, but I doubt it. — Hanover
Hanover seems to think I deny internal experiences. I don't. I'm saying that if they can not be shared, spoken about, then they are irrelevant. — Banno
You seemed to be considering the possibility that it's irrelevant. Obviously it can't be. — frank
If they are ineffable personal experiences, then they cannot be discussed - that's what ineffable" means. — Banno
If all our belief were true, there would be no need to discriminate between true/false belief. But... not all our belief is true.
— creativesoul
Yes.
Creatures with the ability to think about their own thought and belief - and those without - are capable of having true and false belief. Only the former can become aware of it.
— creativesoul
Hence belief and language go together. — Banno
Belief presupposes truth.
— creativesoul
Yes - and falsehood. — Banno
Belief allows us to play the language game of correcting our errors. "I believed it, but it was wrong". It does this by acknowledging a distinction between what is true and what is stated, spoken, acted on and so on.
That's why beliefs are propositional attitudes - they have to be about stuff.
That's why they involve an individual - they have to be about what an agent does.
This is the best analysis I've seen so far. — Banno
Truth results from falsehood. If every statement were true we would have no need to note that they were true. It is because some statements are false that we need to distinguish them from the ones that are true.
We need belief because we sometimes give assent to and act on statements that are false. There is a mismatch between what we do or say and what is the case. We can deal with this by using belief.
Hence belief becomes and explanation for our actions, such that when we act erroneously, we might explain it by noting that we held a false belief. — Banno
If I invite you to look at something, I'm inviting you to have a particular phenomenal experience, aren't I? That phenomenal experience, according to you, is irrelevant to something, so I'm trying to figure out what difference it could make for you to accept or refuse my invitation. — Srap Tasmaner
...my phenomenal state of the round ball. — Hanover
The attraction of talking about phenomena seems to be that it somehow allows us to get inside the head - inside the other person's beetle-containing box. It doesn't. — Banno
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