All communication IS language.
WTF??? — creativesoul
All communication IS language.
WTF???
— creativesoul
Try expressing this to all the research that goes into non-verbal communication, ya know, facial expressions and the like. Whistling down the wind. — javra
Since when is language limited to only verbal? — creativesoul
You know any being's belief by its behavior...
— Hanover
All external behavior offers an incomplete report of the internal belief, which could result in alternative explanations...
— Hanover
Care to reconcile this? — creativesoul
↪creativesoul A belief is knowable only via behavior and is therefore subject to interpretation. — Hanover
But I did not say that. And I failed to follow your comments about the moon. — Banno
I'm asking about how you distinguish a conscious being capable of belief from one that doesn't have that capacity. — frank
For me it's simple, and not as complicated as most people are making it. We see the actions of animals and humans, and based on these actions we can reasonably infer that they have beliefs apart from statements/propositions. When we communicate these beliefs with one another we use language, but beliefs aren't necessarily dependent on language. Beliefs are only dependent upon language if we want to communicate that belief.
Another way to put it is the following: Pain behavior is not dependent on language, but our talk of pain behavior is. Pain can be observed apart from language, and so can beliefs, both are shown in the acts of both humans and animals.
So to answer your question, "How can I claim to know...?" - I can claim to know based on observation. I don't need to know every aspect of what a belief consists of to draw this conclusion. If you want to be more precise about it that's fine, but just remember that it's not necessary to have a precise definition to be able to talk about these concepts, we do it all the time. The word belief spans a wide array of language-games, so precision, although important, may escape you. — Sam26
Forget about meaning and look to use. Understanding a concept is being able to use it. — Banno
No, Banno - there is in addition an irreducible, invisible thing-in-the-mind had by those who understand 'heavy' - the concept of heavy."
And when you and I both understand "heavy", we have the same concept in our minds? Is there one concept, shared, or is there one concept each?
And if there is one concept that we all share, what sort of thing could it be?
But if we have one concept each, how can it be the same concept? How is "heavy" for me the same as "heavy" for you? — Banno
We do not need to have a clear cut off; a gradation will suffice. — Banno
No, it would imply that it's likely we both are referencing a similar subjective impression of a beetle when we said "beetle," but we couldn't be sure.
I can't be sure your utterance of "beetle" is heard the same for me as you. It too is a beetle. Language is only assumed public. — Hanover
I'm lost. You are all over the shop. — Banno
It's more likely that contradictory statements would get you a million bucks. — Banno
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