They’re rough people, in many cases from jails, prisons, from mental institutions, insane asylums. You know, insane asylums, that’s ‘Silence of the Lambs’ stuff. ... Hannibal Lecter, anybody know Hannibal Lecter?”

You know where he got the idea that many of them come from insane asylums. They’re asylum seekers. Who came from asylums.

Agreed. It’s actually far worse than what we’re hearing.

There are lots of people who would be of interest to ICE hold up in their houses in Minneapolis having to have food delivered by friends. They’re too scared to go outside.

There is no dirty trick that is beneath him to ensure he maintains power. We've seen that with what transpired after the 2020 election. — Questioner

After the 2020 election Trump's total ineptness and lack of leadership qualities was shown. The self-coup, which basically it would have been if Trump would have overturned the elections, didn't happen. It was Trump encouraging his voter to go to Capitol Hill (which the did and stormed the place), yet Trump simply went to the White House to watch his supporters invade the Capital. It was simply a mess.

To me the really scary part was when general Mike Flynn advise him to use the military to confiscate the voting machines. That was a direct plan and someone like Flynn would have known that either power or then prison. Only later it seems that Trump has thought that this would have been a great thing to do.

Yet the issue is that on Jan 6th 2020 Trump would have had total strategic surprise. The political system and the Democrats were totally like a deer in the headlights, totally unable to understand what was happening. It would have been unfathomable. And Trump had his followers making it seem to be as a popular revolt. A self-coup would then have been actually possible, but Trump just created a huge mess.

Now it's totally different.

Now everybody is ready for the dirty tricks. Trump seizing power is not unfathomable. And now the limits of Trump's outrageous actions are seen. Just like with Greenland, Trump has to withdraw from the most insane denials of Pretti having attacked the ICE agents. Bovino, the nazi-like commander who has lost all credibility, seems to have been sidelined.

Yet now Trump does have his yes-men (and yes-women) in prominent positions who know that they likely won't last even if the next president would be a Republican. Such people can have the determination to go with Trump's dirty tricks, unlike people in the Trump's first administration.

The elected King? Yes. — Banno

…and the system that enables such a king to be elected.

calm down a little. — Tzeentch

Perfectly calm. But thank you.

You even accused me of partisanship! Which was pretty amusing. — Tzeentch

Because it’s true.

For the record, what I’m pointing out here — and reacting to — is the utter hypocrisy of those on the right, yourself included. Yes, I know what the claims are — none of you are “the right,” or Trumpers, or politically aligned; you’re all just cool neutral observers taking in the facts and making judgements based only on that.

But I see through all of that propaganda, as anyone should. Simply look at the emphasis, at what lines and narratives get echoed, what gets downplayed — at what context gets excluded. It’s perfectly predictable how you and several others will react. As obvious as how a Fox News or MSNBC would react.

Why not simply say “this was a mistake— shouldn’t have happened, regardless of party, and they shouldn’t be lying about it.” Even Glenn Greenwald and the Wall Street Journal could do that.

That’s what I would have done if it were the Biden administration. I am politically left and so currently prefer democrats, so I myself wouldn’t have railed against it at length, that’s true — but I also wouldn’t come on here pretending to be beyond partisanship while repeating DNC talking points verbatim, or trying to minimize the killing. You can look back at my history — at Trump’s assassination attempt, at Charlie Kirk’s murder, etc. I didn’t do that. You did, however.

So yeah, stupidity and hypocrisy and fake neutrality are worth calling out I think. And I do it calmly— just perhaps not nicely (which isn’t warranted in my view).

Anyway— carry on with your fair and balanced interpretations.

But I see through all of that, [...] — Mikie

You're not seeing through anything. You're knee-deep in tribalism and that's what you're seeing reflected back at you. Everyone who doesn't chant along with you on your soapbox of shallow moral indignation must be "right wing" - cute.

You're knee-deep in tribalism — Tzeentch

:scream:

Thankfully we all have objective observers like you and Risible Guy to set us straight.

Ok! Don’t let me interrupt your charade.

if even an exercise in futility. — Mikie

Speaking truth is never futile.

Thankfully we all have objective observers like you and Risible Guy to set us straight. — Mikie

Nah. Anyone who takes US domestic politics seriously is beyond redemption. :lol:

After the 2020 election Trump's total ineptness and lack of leadership qualities was shown. — ssu

I've read the entirely of Jack Smith's Special Report, and I encourage all to read it if they want to understand the depths of Trump's corruption.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/Report-of-Special-Counsel-Smith-Volume-1-January-2025.pdf

Anyone who takes US domestic politics seriously is beyond redemption — Tzeentch

This hints at another trait I've seen in Trump supporters - "Unless it affects me personally, I don't care."

"Trump supporter" - I can't. :rofl:

The play at extortion (fewer federal agents for concessions on MAGA policy) - of the Trump administration is putting them under fire –

Pam Bondi’s Letter to Minnesota Could Unravel Entire ICE Crackdown

A federal judge is focusing on the attorney general’s letter in a case on the legality of President Trump’s operation in Minnesota.

Attorney General Pam Bondi’s blackmail letter to Minnesota Governor Tim Walz after the killing of protester Alex Pretti may force the Trump administration to end its violent immigration crackdown in the state.

On Saturday, hours after Border Patrol agents shot and killed Pretti in the streets of Minneapolis, Bondi demanded that Minnesota Governor Tim Walz give the Trump administration full access to the state’s Medicaid and SNAP records so that her office could “efficiently investigate fraud.” Bondi also demanded Walz end the sanctuary state policy and hand over all state voter registration records to Trump. Walz refused.

Now a federal judge is weighing this letter as evidence that the administration is using the presence of armed federal agents as coercion to achieve policy goals…

“The president of the United States said in the middle of this chaos and violence in the streets … he said, ‘Minnesota, your day of retribution is here.’ That is crazy. How can that not violate legal sovereignty?”

Speaks to how incompetent the Admin is

Anyone who takes US domestic politics seriously is beyond redemption. :lol: — Tzeentch

True — unless one is from the US. It matters a little more to me what happens to my friends and neighbors. Mea culpa if that’s “domestic politics.”

Easy for me to tell the Sudanese not to take their domestic politics seriously though, despite the rapes and murders occurring outside their window. Because I’m above that petty stuff, and wicked smaht.

In fairness, not a Trump supporter. But curiously goes far easier on him and his policies than a Biden or Obama. :chin:

Speaking truth is never futile. — Questioner

Fair enough.

In fairness, not a Trump supporter. But curiously goes far easier on him and his policies than a Biden or Obama — Mikie

He's clearly a Trump apologist, and in my books that is a supporter.

There can be no middle road on this issue. You either support fascism, or you do not.

There can be no middle road on this issue. You either support fascism, or you do not.

You’re supporting crime. If Trump took out Hitler there would be riots. There was people out there protesting when he took out Maduro. This is what anti-Trumpism leads people to do.

Easy for me to tell the Sudanese not to take their domestic politics seriously though, despite the rapes and murders occurring outside their window. Because I’m above that petty stuff, and wicked smaht. — Mikie

The one redeeming quality of the Sudanese government is that it isn't clever enough to hide its incompetency and corruption, and therefore no one views it as a vessel for meaningful change.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Washington. It's the perfect psychopath.

Trump perfectly encapsulates what US domestic politics is: an inflammatory clownshow meant to distract from anything that's actually important.

When things like Alex Pretti's death happen, all the more inflammatory it gets. The palpable outrage, the indignation - all such delicious psychological treats on which the American people are so very hooked - would I be wrong if I called it psychological masturbation?

In fairness, not a Trump supporter. But curiously goes far easier on him and his policies than a Biden or Obama. — Mikie

Oh, I don't think that's true. They're all clowns meant to sell you the lie. I had my reasons to reserve judgement on Trump, but his second term has left no doubts.

The one redeeming quality of the Sudanese government is that it isn't clever enough to hide its incompetency and corruption, and therefore no one views it as a vessel for meaningful change.

He’s talking about naturalised Sudanese U.S. citizens, who are being targeted by ICE.

Once again, you do not seem to have read anything but what triggered you emotionally.

Obama deported more people than Trump. THe circumstances in which they were held were as bad or worse. The places they were deported to were the same.
Conceptually, Don is the only difference. The extreme knee-jerk to his plans cannot be ignored as a trigger for how this has gone. Not that it justifies anything, but "fair and balanced" is a joke if you cant admit this.

He's clearly a Trump apologist, and in my books that is a supporter.

There can be no middle road on this issue. You either support fascism, or you do not. — Questioner

This explains a lot. This is a childish, unhelpful and extremely bigoted way of thinking about other human beings. You are also probably entirely wrong on what you're calling fascism, in order to do hte first part. That's how bigotry works: you cloak it in something you think its morally worthy. Funny, that.

When I asked you what this meant, you chose not to reply, so I will have to assume that you are suggesting it is historically insane to draw parallels between the Germans who marched people to the gas chambers and the MAGA goons — Questioner

No. I either missed it, or didn't get to it. Please stop making assumptions about motivations and things you couldn't possibly know. That is, it seems, the most glaring problem in almost everything you want to talk about.

To answer: Yes. Because they are nothing alike (or, not more than trivially). The charges that they are speak to a lack of understanding, or perhaps a wilfull stupidity on the part of those claiming it in my view. The onus is on you. So, onward..

Why? You think those in the 1930s were a different human species than the ones we see today? — Questioner

If you truly think this is a good faith question (rather than an attempt to frame everything the exact emotional way you like it) I can't understand why you would wade into a philosophy forum.

You expect Minnesota to co-operate with their occupiers? — Questioner

This, for instance, is exactly the type of emotive, unhelpful nonsense you seem addicted to.

Prior to their arrival, the state should have fucking co-operated with Federal law enforcement's planned, notified lawful activity to enforce immigration regulations and laws (again, we can discuss how it's played out later. That is not yet open to us, in this exchange, if you want to actually sort anything out). As they did, apparently, under Obama who deported more, in worse circumstances.

DHS notes a more than 1000% increase in assaults on ICE agents. Are you trying to kid me, or yourself? Even court documents (which, I hope you understand what's happened when i delieneate between DHS stats and court docs) reports a 25% increase. That is absolutely absurd and would be considered a form of organised treason in many circumstances (I wouldn't call it that - I'm making a point).

And - “Operation Metro Surge” is unconstitutional – it violates both the 1st, 4th and 10th amendments — Questioner

Possibly. There is no ruling on this and making such a bold statement, again, explains why its so hard to have you say reasonable things in response here. Certain actions definitely do - that's not in argument here with me. But this statement is wholly incomplete and misleading.

I have to admit I am somewhat shocked that you would repeat such a stupid falsehood. — Questioner

Then we have nothing further. You are not in touch with reality and clearly on a particular intellectual mission I have no interest in. Why did you bother.. .

You are clearly incapable of hearing either a competing view, or refraining from hyperbolic emotional framing. You're entitled and I have ill no will. Am just utterly astounded at this type of bad faith being present on this forum (besides Mikie) and so shall 'dip' as they say. Different strokes... Let's stick to poetry.

Don is the only difference. — AmadeusD

To be a little more specific:

• Warrantless home entry policies that ignore judicial warrant requirements.
• Expanded mandatory detention without bond opportunities.
• Allegations of racial profiling and suspicionless stops.
• Reduced procedural protections in sensitive community locations.
• Lowered internal oversight and accountability.

Why don’t you stick to commenting on things where you can skate by on fluff. In this case, there are actual facts— so better you stay clear.

Ignoring your emotions and accusations about how bad faith and mean everyone who disagrees with you is, you’ve so far made the mistake of making two factual claims. One about Obama and his deportations, the other about millions of illegal immigrants voting. Both are so stupid it’s embarrassing, particularly the latter.

It’s the same pattern with you apparently: wade into a topic you know nothing about except for some slogans or talking points, posture as an expert and objective observer “above it all,” feel entitled to lecture others about how bias and emotional they are, then when confronted with refutation — “dip out,” or “see your way out.”

Yes, please do, but next time spare everyone the time and simply keep for mouth shut. :up:

You’re clearly acting on bad faith. Time for him to dip out in indignant disgust.

I combed through your reply, and could not really find any meaningful rebuttal to the facts I posted.

But I will say a couple of things -

The repetition of the lie is the loyalty test.

Ad hominem attacks signal a lack of any substantive argument.

While you are making a list, a few more bullet points:

• The targeting of specific states based upon partisan metrics.

• The breakdown of established protocols of cooperation between federal, state, and local law enforcement.

• The effort to establish ICE prisons in all states through private contracts.

• The incredible amount of money legislated for the operations.

That is enough bullets for one day.

DHS notes a more than 1000% increase in assaults on ICE agents. — AmadeusD

I wonder why that happened.

This could be you

Warrantless home entry policies that ignore judicial warrant requirements.

Expanded mandatory detention without bond opportunities.

Allegations of racial profiling and suspicionless stops.

Reduced procedural protections in sensitive community locations.

Lowered internal oversight and accountability. — praxis

The targeting of specific states based upon partisan metrics.

The breakdown of established protocols of cooperation between federal, state, and local law enforcement.

The effort to establish ICE prisons in all states through private contracts.

The incredible amount of money legislated for the operations. — Paine

:up:

So basically more whataboutism. Put in a more numeric way: it’s wrong that person A lied 10 times; it’s also wrong when person B lies 1000 times. But 10 and 1000 are different, and the 10 doesn’t justify the 1000. False equivalence and whataboutism is truly rampant.

Must all be delusions of the liberal media bubble. Now about those millions of illegals voting for democrats…oh and the election was stolen and vaccines cause autism and …