Guess just carrying a gun legally is enough to get you shot 10 times. Look forward to applying those standards in the future. What goes around comes around. :up:

You haven't given a reply to my post about Trump's fascism

He’s a troll, best left alone.

is mindset, his symbolism, and his rhetoric all underscore the point he made to The New York Times this month: his own mind and morality are the only limits on his global power. This is Fascism 101.

Except he’s a Klutz, just look at his performance at Davos. Mark Rutte patted him on the back and pretended to make a deal, so Trump could save face.
Also he’s in cognitive decline, with contenders for the top spot starting to jostle behind him. The MAGA base isn’t big enough to keep the show on the road, once Trump is out of the picture.

The parallels with Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party in the U.K. are there. It all fell apart like a cheap suit and the party imploded. The rats are fleeing the sinking ship and joining the Reform Party.

There isn’t a hard right alternative in the U.S., where will they flee to?

Guess just carrying a gun legally is enough to get you shot 10 times. Look forward to applying those standards in the future. What goes around comes around. — Mikie

It's really a concept of how to really fuck everything up:

1) Rapidly enlarge one particular force disregarding a vetting process and training.

2) Take literally the political rhetoric of "tough on illegal immigration" by disregarding formal standard police procedure, perhaps as "pinko-liberal weak" obstacle for the process.



3) Have totally ludicrous "quotas" ordered by the White House that simply cannot be achieved as the country's tough stance on immigration has already diminished the actual size of illegal immigration.

4) Have no cooperation with local law enforcement and basically treat the local authorities as part of the problem. Have the actions of this government force heavily politicized.

5) When all the above points 1) to 4) create popular resentment and accidents of total ineptness occur, like where one ICE team member taking away an holstered gun leads to someone yelling "GUN" and several agents discharge there weapons several times on a victim that was already on the ground and wasn't a threat, THEN LIE ABOUT IT even if there is multiple video evidence from different angles of the incident.

What's the worse that can come from this? First steps have already been taken on a very dark path, if this path will be followed. Look at this picture:



Above are Minnesotan National Guard giving donuts and warm coffee to people. They have yellow vests on deliberately to make them visually separate from roaming ICE teams in Minneapolis. It looks like an innocent picture, but it tells very unsettling things of how downhill things are going in the US. First, there are basically now two government armed groups following orders from separate leadership that are totally at odds with each other. States might really start to think just what is their relation to Trump's regime now. Just like NATO countries are thinking now what the future holds for them as the US is what Trump has made of it.

Yes, now it might really be a stretch that you would have these two entities, Donald Trump's ICE versus local law enforcement and National Guard shooting each other. Perhaps it is as remote as Greenland being invaded by the US. Yet this is extremely alarming just what is happening with the US.

It’s really stupid, is what it is. Because Trump is 80, and he’s deeply unpopular. They’ll get wiped out in the midterms, beyond a doubt, and then Trump is out of office forever. Then he’ll be dead — hopefully sooner than later, but not long — and what becomes of this weird coalition?

All the precedents they’re setting will be used against them. Just a matter of time. And I look forward to it.

It’s really stupid, is what it is. Because Trump is 80, and he’s deeply unpopular. They’ll get wiped out in the midterms, beyond a doubt, and then Trump is out of office forever. Then he’ll be dead — hopefully sooner than later, but not long — and what becomes of this weird coalition?

All the precedents they’re setting will be used against them. Just a matter of time. And I look forward to it. — Mikie

But the democrats aren't doing well either. They're so out of touch with reality they can't even muster much opposition against what is happening now. Most of it is just politicians saying "we don't like this", but not much else.

The US needs a purge and rewrite of how their political system works. Because the system today will just invite some new Trump into office at some point.

What the US should do is to really use this as an opportunity to restructure the political system into having much more rigorous guardrails against grifters and authoritarians.

But the US population is either too stupid, or too apathetic to ever muster any such change, even after something like this. Slaves of the modern condition do not have the power, even if they are free to do so. They've been conditioned to not care.

Because Trump is 80, and he’s deeply unpopular. They’ll get wiped out in the midterms, beyond a doubt, and then Trump is out of office forever. — Mikie

The way things are going look very sinister to me. Even now when the GOP is enjoying a narrow margin in Congress, Trump isn't going the actual way of having laws pushed through the Congress, but just goes on with more whacky executive orders even if those. Just messages in his Truthsocial! Declaring that he is in charge of Venezuela and then the income from oil from the seized tankers ends up on a bank account in Qatar. And (was it WP) it's been reported that he has made now over a billion dollars in his first year of his second term. He bloody well knows what he will be facing if (when) the democrats are in control.

You really think that after the peculiar attempt on Jan 6th, now with having total control of the Justice Department, FBI and with those ICE goons around, that Trump will respect democratic elections that would be devastating for him?

So what do you do when he just postpones the elections? Trump has said publicly that "we shouldn’t even have an election". What if he does what he has said? Or when they aren't free and fair? Alzheimer kicking in or another Trump having another stroke might take time. Just look at what he's done or attempted to do in one year.

Don’t you think it’s still a little premature to start making predictions given that them rest of the haven’t panned out yet? I’m still waiting for your recession, but then I read this morning that gdp growth is expected to keep climbing. It’s almost to the point that should ssu predict something, it would be wise for others to predict the exact opposite.

I have had a disturbing thought - that the ones justifying the murder of Alex Pretti are the ones who would have marched people to the gas chambers. — Questioner

That is historically insane.

They are, however, fucking blind.

That's true, but there's always going to be a question: If local law enforcement co-operated, the way they did under Obama, there wouldn't be the need for ICE to be carrying out these raids and there would be no media-driven (and, as much as you might think this is fine) a concerted, semi-violent effort to impede, harm and hamper not just the enforcement, but agents themselves, the temperature wouldn't be so goddamn high.

This is doable 10 years ago. It's not now. If its the fact Trump is doing, then that is the problem for those people, not hte enforcement.

And yes, there is always going to be this question, because that's what happened under Obama.

I'm not sure what you mean.

, Mussolini was popular for a while.
I suppose there are various reasons that people don't react effectively/cohesively (and timely). :/
The US could use that by now.

In other news ...
Newsom says Davos appearance was canceled under pressure from Trump (— Guardian · Jan 21, 2026)

Translation: a bunch of bullshit that combines bothsideism with blaming the protesters. Just watch Fox News and you’ll get the point.

the way they did under Obama, there wouldn't be the need for ICE to be carrying out these raids and there would be no media-driven (and, as much as you might think this is fine) a concerted, semi-violent effort to impede — AmadeusD

I'm not sure you understand what is happening.

There are over 2 million undocumented immigrants in red state Texas.
There are over 1.2 million undocumented immigrants in red state Florida.
There are about 130,000 undocumented immigrants in blue state Minnesota.

ICE agents in the hundreds are sent to the red states, but 3000 ICE agents were sent to the city of Minneapolis alone. (This is about 14% of the total number of ICE agents to cover all 50 states) The president's lawless army has descended upon the city, and this has nothing to do with immigration. It is about terrorizing. It is about having a pretext to invoke the Insurrection Act. It is part of the strategy to ensure Trump does not have to leave office.

Trump's offer to remove the ICE army if Minnesota hands over the voter rolls shows that.

~

It is part of the strategy to ensure Trump does not have to leave office. — Questioner

The insurrection act cannot change the timeline for federal elections. That is down to your congress. The 20th Amendment sets an absolute end to a presidential term on January 20th, with no exceptions for emergencies or ongoing challenges.

The insurrection act cannot change the timeline for federal elections. That is down to your congress. The 20th Amendment sets an absolute end to a presidential term on January 20th, with no exceptions for emergencies or ongoing challenges. — Banno

You assume Trump will uphold the Constitution

Quite a lot of my predictions have come true.

Like how it was laughable to think that someone like Trump "would end the forever wars" and "focus on America itself", and obviously that this guy "would drain the swamp". And he did move on Greenland, obviously got only scared when the stock market took a hit.

And Kash Patel btw. seems to be exactly the kind of guy I thought he would be.

That's true, but there's always going to be a question: If local law enforcement co-operated, the way they did under Obama, there wouldn't be the need for ICE to be carrying out these raids and there would be no media-driven (and, as much as you might think this is fine) a concerted, semi-violent effort to impede, harm and hamper not just the enforcement, but agents themselves, the temperature wouldn't be so goddamn high. — AmadeusD

Exactly. First of all, ICE or any government agency wouldn't make an operation without approval of the state in normal times. And then it would be low key, simply marketed as totally normal police stuff. Just ask yourself: was it really in the news when the highest number of illegal immigrants were sent away during the years when we had Democrat Presidents? You have to have a serious political crisis when for example the Military is put into a state without the acceptance of the state leaders. It's not something that hasn't happened, for example President Eisenhower put the military escort black children to school:

Trump's offer to remove the ICE army if Minnesota hands over the voter rolls shows that. — Questioner

And this tells what really is here the issue.

The whole immigrant issue is just the smoke and mirrors here, just like "Chinese or Russian warships off Greenland" or "Canada sending Fentanol to the US" or whatever bullshit Trump says. But it's something that the MAGA crowd likes and keeps them fantasizing that Trump is actually doing what he promised to do. In reality this is all about a power play.

Seriously, if a Presidents gets over one billion in wealth in one year with even the Swiss bribing him, does anyone think seriously that this guy will just give away power and face the consequences? Trump does control the Justice Department and people like Pete Hegseth, Kash Patel, Pam Bondi and Kristi Noem do know that they are on thin ice without Trump/Vance team in power.

The insurrection act cannot change the timeline for federal elections. That is down to your congress. The 20th Amendment sets an absolute end to a presidential term on January 20th, with no exceptions for emergencies or ongoing challenges. — Banno

You assume Trump will uphold the Constitution — Questioner

I think Trump just declaring himself a President for life won't happen. But I think that Trump will try to fake an election win so that at least the Senate is in GOP hold. Trump isn't worried about the next presidential elections, he is worried about impeachment after the Midterms. And what better for him to do this, when all of his stellar political career it's been about the democrats having large scale election fraud. After that, if he would be shrewd, he'd do the Yeltsin thing: pick a Putin, who will let him be safe from investigations and possible jail time. Is JD up to it? Well, he surely is on the Trump boat.

Election fraud is a real possibility, because then people can say that everything is normal and we have seen already this dumpster fire. Not holding elections and oh boy, Trump is for a real ride. It's a move that even US "former?" allies won't accept. And hopefully the American people.

The real issue is of course is that Trump is a simply a disaster. The Greenland deal ended in disaster. As some put it aptly, NATO secretary general had to tap Trump on his back to get Trump from the whole he had dug himself with Greenland and gave him a fictional win. Trump is his worst enemy.

In the end Trump will have his supporters. These people will think that everything is just a lie and badmouthing of Trump. And if Trump will break the rules, he's breaking them because his opponents will do the same thing. Hopefully many will see that this man is really not well and not for the job that he holds now.

The US needs an electoral commission. But to do that it would need a public service that is not appointed by the president.

Let's hope that the US crawls back from this pit it has fallen into.

An electoral commission would naturally be the first thing an autocrat wants to control. But there are many other entities, simply called the separation of powers. When people don't think that this separation of powers are needed and assume that actually nothing works because of the separation of powers, then you get these populist autocrats. Strong men that promise to correct everything and make things better... and end up making things better only for themselves and their cronies.

In a Westminster system there is effectively another power, the public service. once an independent organ charged with administering policy, they owed allegiance only to other bureaucrats. Of courser this had it's own problems, but being neither elected nor appointed by the president, they were mostly autonomous.

Not so now.

The US needs an electoral commission. But to do that it would need a public service that is not appointed by the president. — Banno

This is at the core of the problems with US politics. It's built on a system in which the power that can be abused is also the power who decides who's deciding if that power is abused and what to do about it. It's a damn ouroboros.

It doesn't take much brain power to understand that what needs to be fixed in the US is to form a government which has independent entities who all gets checked independently. And with that, a much stricter form of power that if abused will immediately render the elected officials unfit for office.

There's a proposed law for Welsh elections that politicians will not be able to lie to promote a candidate. Of course the politicians all call out that it would limit free speech, but it's the best law I've heard about for a while that's actually a proposition. There's no reason why lying would be necessary, and if politicians fear that they accidentally mislead, then, maybe... politicians need to be a bit more fucking educated on the matters they govern so they can speak the truth.

I think that democracy is dead, or, the form of democracy we've had in most places of democratic nations have become outdated. It cannot exist together with the internet, because the internet is a machine that takes lies and spins them out of control. It doesn't matter if it's intentional in marketing for elections or not...

The world needs to evolve democracy into a better form of it. It starts with removing the ability for politicians to spin elections with lies, manipulation, threats and fear mongering. To make "being a politician" a very hard job that at the top of the game requires tremendous leadership, intelligence and representative grit. We need to purge all the charlatans and bullshitters from halls of power everywhere. There can be some low level idiots as part of fringe parties, but to reach the top of power, there should be so many traps for grifters and authoritarians that they don't even get the time to lift a megaphone within a political sphere.

Mikie, is it just your nature to make pithy, childish replies? There is no blaming protesters for getting shot unless they do something which would justify that. I've not said otherwise. You just cannot help yourself but but in with these low-level, Twitter-type trolls.

This is so intensely confused.

Minnesota actively, publicly said it would not co-operate with a Federal law enforcement activity which is justified and reasonable (not the current activities - i'm saying conceptually) was apparently fine under Obama. I would focus there. That would be sensible as it indicates you're going to get some trouble. As ICE have, in fact, had. You can ignore all the assaults on ICE if you like, but there are two sides to this (not hte murder of Pretti - It's bogus to pretend anything I'm saying is an attempt to justify whatever Mikie is whittering about. You have to actually read and not assume).
Texas, as far as I know, is co-operating. They do not need to run the type of operation seen in Minnesota (although, I'm not saying its good or that I'm 'fine' with it either). I wouldn't focus there. I wouldn't anticipate issues. Nor have there been.

The president's lawless army has descended upon the city, and this has nothing to do with immigration — Questioner

Well, both of these are utterly preposterous and supported by anything but personal assumptions.

It is about having a pretext to invoke the Insurrection Act. It is part of the strategy to ensure Trump does not have to leave office. — Questioner

Haha. If you think so - I'd prefer to keep my head on my shoulders. If you truly think these are motivations for anything he's done, I implore you to bookmark this and come back to me in three years.

Trump's offer to remove the ICE army if Minnesota hands over the voter rolls shows that. — Questioner

No. That shows (on an inferential basis)he's concerned that Minnesota has been propped up by illegals voting for their Democrat mates who have supported wide-spread fraud. But prior to that, checking voting eligibility and fixing the holes (many of which have already been found - why are we ignoring things like that?) is exactly what he's said he wants to do. Is it in service of 'his side'? Yes. So was allowing millions of illegals to vote Dem.

If you're going to make this type of assumption that's fine - but I'm going to then say Walz dipping shows clearly he's guilty of fraud. Nice work :)

Exactly. First of all, ICE or any government agency wouldn't make an operation without approval of the state in normal times. And then it would be low key, simply marketed as totally normal police stuff. Just ask yourself: was it really in the news when the highest number of illegal immigrants were sent away during the years when we had Democrat Presidents? You have to have a serious political crisis when for example the Military is put into a state without the acceptance of the state leaders. It's not something that hasn't happened, for example President Eisenhower put the military escort black children to school: — ssu

Not entirely askance from your position here, but I think when you have multiple state leaders actively claiming they wont participate or co-operate with lawful ICE operations (which, at least as initially proposed, they were) you can't just "let it run its course".
But the optics and possibly actually authoritarian bent is not lost on me. It's is crucial to remember I am not a fan of the Don. I am a fan of discussing things in a mature manner and hearing all comers. It is not interesting to me to have people(Mikie) be so intensely combative and incapable of reading a full post that they say the batshit stuff they do.

We need to purge all the charlatans and bullshitters from halls of power everywhere. — Christoffer

Who does?
How is that to be assessed?
Or implemented?

These seem like wishful pipedreams of someone who thinks their moral compass is perfect (not you, but whoever actually runs this argument to its end).

This is at the core of the problems with US politics. — Christoffer

The elected King? Yes.

was apparently fine under Obama — AmadeusD

:rofl:

Fair and balanced, as always.

The way things are going look very sinister to me. — ssu

Agreed. It’s actually far worse than what we’re hearing. It’s also deeply unpopular. But something something Obama, so it’s all good.

I think Trump just declaring himself a President for life won't happen. — ssu

There is no dirty trick that is beneath him to ensure he maintains power. We've seen that with what transpired after the 2020 election.

Minnesota actively, publicly said it would not co-operate with a Federal law enforcement activity which is justified and reasonable (not the current activities - i'm saying conceptually) was apparently fine under Obama. — AmadeusD

You expect Minnesota to co-operate with their occupiers?

Besides, states are not required by law to co-operate with ICE.

And - “Operation Metro Surge” is unconstitutional – it violates both the 1st, 4th and 10th amendments

Here’s where Trump differs from Obama. Trump’s goons – thousands of masked and armed agents lacking professionalism and adequate training – stormed in uninvited and are terrorizing the Twin Cities – once there -

• using force against individuals peacefully engaging in constitutionally protected speech;
• arresting, threatening and using force against innocent bystanders;
• pointing firearms at individuals who pose no threat to DHS agents; and
• carrying out enforcement actions at sensitive locations like schools, churches, hospitals.

Many United States citizens have been the victims of unlawful racial profiling by DHS agents due to the color of their skin or, in the words of one ICE agent, because “I can hear you don’t have the same accent as me.” These individuals are frequently handcuffed and detained for hours by DHS agents for no reason. Immigration agents have targeted individuals in sensitive locations, including schools, medical facilities, places of worship, daycares, and funeral homes.

At the heart of this invasion is political retaliation -

President Trump made this clear himself on January 9, when he stated Minnesota is “corrupt” and “crooked” because its officials accurately reported election results and those results did not declare him the winner. “[T]hey’re crooked officials. . . . I feel that I won Minnesota all three times. I think I won it all three times . . . I won it all three times in my opinion . . . It’s a corrupt voter state . . . I won Minnesota three times and I didn’t get credit for it. That’s a crooked state.”

e's concerned that Minnesota has been propped up by illegals voting for their Democrat mates who have supported wide-spread fraud. — AmadeusD

So was allowing millions of illegals to vote Dem. — AmadeusD

I have to admit I am somewhat shocked that you would repeat such a stupid falsehood.

Undocumented immigrants do not have the right to vote.

It happens, but it is extremely rare. Extensive review of the 2024 election uncovered a few cases. For example, in Michigan 16 (that's ten fingers and six toes) noncitizens voted.

18 states recorded none at all.

Do you really think an undocumented immigrant would risk deportation in order to vote?

That is historically insane.

They are, however, fucking blind. — AmadeusD

When I asked you what this meant, you chose not to reply, so I will have to assume that you are suggesting it is historically insane to draw parallels between the Germans who marched people to the gas chambers and the MAGA goons

Why? You think those in the 1930s were a different human species than the ones we see today?

What turned them then is what turns MAGA now.

In both cases, people were/are manipulated by a propagandizing “strongman” who spreads baseless claims and exploits human weaknesses, most especially fear. In both cases, violence is normalized and empathy blunted. Hate is made to feel normal, hate against the people who the strongman tells you is the enemy. The target group is dehumanized. Trump has a few target groups –

Here’s some of the things he has said about immigrants –

“They’re poisoning the blood of our country.”

“… pour into and infest our Country”

“The Democrats say, ‘Please don’t call them animals. They’re humans.’ I said, ‘No, they’re not humans, they’re not humans. They’re animals.’”

“They’re rough people, in many cases from jails, prisons, from mental institutions, insane asylums. You know, insane asylums, that’s ‘Silence of the Lambs’ stuff. ... Hannibal Lecter, anybody know Hannibal Lecter?”

Here’s what Trump says about the Democrats, who he regularly calls “radical left lunatics” –

“The party of hate, evil and Satan.”

"the enemy from within”

“… and the enemy from within, in my opinion, is more dangerous than China, Russia and all these countries."

Take a look at his posting history.

Here’s one – full of the usual lies -

… I would like to wish an early New Year’s salutation to Crooked Joe Biden and his group of Radical Left Misfits & Thugs on their never ending attempt to DESTROY OUR NATION through Lawfare, Invasion, and Rigging Elections. They are now scrambling to sign up as many of those millions of people they are illegally allowing into sour Country, in order that they will be ready to VOTE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2024.

The support Trump gets from his base depends on hate. He also keeps them entertained with spectacle.

I’ll leave you with a couple of things. First, something I read in an Atlantic article -

I ARRIVED IN MINNEAPOLIS 11 days after an ICE agent shot Good in the face. Her picture was hanging like a religious icon on windows and walls all over the city. To many who had not already become involved, her death was a call to action.

One of those latecomers was a 46-year-old documentary filmmaker named Chad Knutson. On the morning after Good was killed, he was at home with his two hound dogs, watching a live feed from the Whipple Building, where ICE is based, a five-minute drive from his house. A protester had laid a rose on a makeshift memorial to Good. As Knutson watched, an ICE agent took the rose, put it in his lapel, and then mockingly gave it to a female ICE agent. They both laughed.

Knutson told me he had never been a protester. It seemed pointless, or just a way for people to expiate their sense of guilt. But when he saw those ICE agents laughing, something broke inside him.

“I grab my keys, I grab a coat, and drive over,” Knutson told me. “I barely park my car and I’m running out screaming and crying, ‘You stole a fucking flower from a dead woman. Like, are any of you human anymore?’

Second, a reply I got on another forum when I posted a similar sentiment about MAGA cult members being reminiscent of those who marched people to the gas chamber.

A Trump supporter replied, “Let them burn!”

It's the same mentality that called Renee Good a "fucking bitch" after he killed her.

I have to admit I am somewhat shocked that you would repeat such a stupid falsehood. — Questioner

I’m not. Better not to put any effort into trolls— although your exhaustive explanations are appreciated, if even an exercise in futility. Ignorance eventually shines through though, doesn’t it? They can’t help but give themselves away.

What’s so very sad on this thread, regarding this murder, is how it exposes those who want to think of themselves as objective observers who don’t play party politics as the frauds they really are. Either they’re so uninformed as to he an embarrassment, or know better but surrendered any principles to partisan hackery.

Anyway — you’re right. We’re supposed to ignore the gross lies that reflexively came out of this administration. How Good and Pretti were “domestic terrorists” and “would-be assassins” — despite no criminal record whatsoever, and no evidence to support the claim whatsoever. When now contradicted by video evidence — the human garbage that they are — the claims have changed. No retraction, no apologies.

But we’re supposed to forget all that.

I think you may need to calm down a little.

This theatrictal outrage over a single man murdered is just an emotional venting mechanism for people who are foaming at the mouth to use it as a justification in their own partisan hackery - something which your comment is positively overflowing with. You even accused me of partisanship! Which was pretty amusing.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention the last several decades, but killing people under questionable circumstances is an absolute normalcy to the United States.

But I guess only when the killing gets emotionally relevant, it's time to get on our soapboxes.

They are blocking streets, lighting fires, waving foreign flags, and making “trans autonomous zones” — NOS4A2

Is that what they did?

Renée Good

Alex Pretti