• bccampello
    4
    Plato says that philosophy is a preparation for death. When we start asking philosophical questions in our teenage years, this is exactly what we are looking for: an intellectual refuge from the complexity and size of a reality that encompasses us, and that we do not control in any way. This is what so-and-so calls the search for truth when it is the other way around. It is the search for a refuge, therefore, the search for intellectual security against the complexity of the real. It is only after dedicating yourself to this activity for some time that you begin to feel a little more protected, inasmuch as you accept your own state of unprotection and no longer seek protection. Then the subject calms down and, one day, discovers that there is something called reality. I did not invent it, it is not an object of my thinking. It is something I am in and it is, without a doubt, much more interesting than anything I have thought of.

    The encounter with this reality is the mark of what we can call intellectual maturity

    Intellectual maturity is when we no longer seek that conceptual, doctrinal scheme, or that belief that will defend us against reality, but when we seek to adjust our intelligence to the reality we are living, that is, we no longer want to escape reality . We want to enter it and experience it with all the measure of its complexity, its wealth, in such a way that we are sure that our actions in our modality of existence represent a conscious experience of this reality that we will never embrace or dominate, but in which we want to make sure that we were, that is, we want to make sure that we were awake, living in the reality that surrounds us and not within a world of ideas that we ourselves created to defend ourselves. This is the maximum measure that human intelligence can achieve: conscious and lucid participation in a reality that it cannot embrace. In other words, we do not know what the limits of reality are, what the whole picture is, nor the final answer, but we know where we are, what we are doing here and we know what is happening.

    I often have this feeling, even when it is depressing in nature. If we are suffocated under problems, if there is misery, fear, persecution, etc., it is better to know what is happening than to ignore it. Because otherwise, we will be like a bunny that is running in the middle of the bush and suddenly gets shot and doesn’t even know where that crap came from.

    The difference between human and animal suffering is this. The pet suffers and has no idea why. And we can (as far as we can), within the very experience of suffering, take an image of our dignity, of beings who have access to the truth. And this is the most we can achieve in this life. When Aristotle said that the higher form of life is the contemplative form, that is what he meant. It is to understand what is happening. If instead of trying to understand, one seeks only to defend oneself from the situation, seeking pleasure and avoiding pain, one does exactly what a pet does. Now, if the pet also doesn’t understand the situation, it is evident that when he seeks pleasure, he finds pain and when he runs away from pain, he finds even more pain.

    The cognitive attitude towards this creates, not a state of beatitude, but a kind of superior tranquility. And this is the attitude with which Socrates faces death. He says: “I don’t know exactly what death is but I know more than you do. I have some idea what’s going on and what’s going to happen to me. That’s why I’m not afraid”. This is, at the same time, the beginning and the culmination of philosophy. Philosophy cannot go beyond that. And all these magnificent intellectual constructions that we see in modernity (Descartes’, Spinoza’s, Leibniz’s metaphysics, the Enlightenment, this whole thing) are often just an escape, a defensive attitude of individuals who want to build a intellectual building within which they can be closed. It is clear that the construction of all these apparatuses, instead of calming the fear, increases it. In addition to having to face the pressure, the difficulties, the humiliations of normal life, these individuals have to hold the building to prevent it from falling over by covering it with a stick here, a glue there, with a spit, to prove that they are right, that that view of the universe is the true one and all the others are false. All of this is an idiot occupation because, where do they go when they die? Are you going inside that conceptual building you created? There is not a single case of experience of a state of clinical death in which people say that they died and went into Aristotle’s or Spinoza’s metaphysics. Nobody went to one of these places! These things only existed in the minds of Aristotle and Spinoza, they are not the real world and neither is the real answer.

    When Plato says that philosophy is a preparation for death, that is what he is talking about. Whatever can be obtained in the doctrinal construction will always be less than the soul of the listener. Because the listener’s soul will have Eternal Life and these intellectual constructions will not! The most the philosopher can do is try to give his listeners those moments of clarity that are the expectation of Eternal Life. Remembering Eternal Life is the philosopher’s ultimate function: to understand transient life, the moment that passes and the real situation in which we live, and to draw the soul from the living consciousness of the situation to remember the hope of Eternal Life (which is more than hope, it is certainty). This consists of all philosophy, and this is brutally compacted in these two texts that I am recommending to you: Socrates’ Apology and the Phaedo. For the time being you understand this in my formulation, in a little while you will not only understand within the formulation in which you are listening, but in the formulation that Plato gave you in these two magnificent texts.
  • RogueAI
    2.5k
    "an intellectual refuge from the complexity and size of a reality that encompasses us, and that we do not control in any way."

    You don't have control over reality "in any way"? Sure you do. I'd much rather live in the reality of modern dentistry and medicine than what we had in the 1600's.
  • JerseyFlight
    782
    I often have this feeling, even when it is depressing in nature. If we are suffocated under problems, if there is misery, fear, persecution, etc., it is better to know what is happening than to ignore it.bccampello

    Adorno took this position, that even if we are crushed by reality it is still better to comprehend the details of this destruction than be totally alienated from reality. His point really had to do with the dignity of the thinker. It is an interesting thought.

    And this is the attitude with which Socrates faces death. He says: “I don’t know exactly what death is but I know more than you do. I have some idea what’s going on and what’s going to happen to me. That’s why I’m not afraid”. This is, at the same time, the beginning and the culmination of philosophy. Philosophy cannot go beyond that. And all these magnificent intellectual constructions that we see in modernity (Descartes’, Spinoza’s, Leibniz’s metaphysics, the Enlightenment, this whole thing) are often just an escape, a defensive attitude of individuals who want to build a intellectual building within which they can be closed.bccampello

    I think there is much truth in this, but one can expand the quality of thought beyond the point of death to encompass the quality of life itself, and this is really the high point of philosophy. Playing abstract games is not a high point, it is most often an evasion of life and social responsibility. I would even go so far as to say that most of the philosophers on this forum fall directly into this category. Philosophers do not like the conversation of social responsibility because it kicks against the supremacy of their abstraction. They are ready to remain in the hedonism of their thought, they are not ready to allow thought to dictate the kind of life that must be lived. Philosophy is not a mystical force and neither is it a hobby, those who handle it accordingly are attempting to evade reality through it. Philosophy, when done properly, is a critical power that drives man in the direction of value.
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Plato says that philosophy is a preparation for deathbccampello

    There's something odd about Plato's, and it seems even Socrates', idea that philosophy is some kind of preparatory process for death. Well, for sure it's true that the philosophical quest for truth must involve knowledge of death for death is part of our reality. However, Plato and Socrates taking great pains to emphasize the preeminent position of death in, in Socratic terms, living and living well is suggestive - either these two Greek dudes were no different from any other person dead or living and were in fear of death or, most intriguingly, they were onto something in that they understood the true nature of death. Who knows, right?

    Let's suppose, given their stature, given their almost god-like wisdom, that Plato and Socrates had, in fact, grasped the true nature of death and realized that life is simply a prep school you attend for morte. This interpretation leads to only one conclusion - how we live life plays a big role when we meet our end. We're preparing for death, remember?

    Some might think that life, doing philosophy, viewed in this Platonic-Socratic, death-oriented, fashion has something to do with a concern for one's legacy - the sum total of our actions outlive us in terms of consequences. No one would want to leave a trail of destruction in their wake and death takes away all opportunities to make amends.

    Others might believe Plato and Socrates uttered those words from a perspective that includes the possibility of an after-life, our actions in life determining the quality of our after-life.

    Still others might come to the conclusion that Plato and Socrates meant that death is the biggest unsolved mystery of all time and that philosophy's task is to prepare for it like job candidates prepare for an interview - be ready with the right answers and, most importantly, the right questions, practice the correct frame of mind if this matters at all, etc. All so that we're not caught with our pants down when we join the club of the dear departed.

    The only other possibility I can think of has to do with the first "sentence" of this post: "there's something odd about...is some kind of preparatory process for death". Let's shift our attention to criminals to make this point clear. The worst criminals of all, murderers, mass-murderers, even rapists on occasion, are given the death sentence i.e. death is a punishment and those who commit heinous crimes are thought to deserve capital punishment. That means, since we're all going to die one day, we're all, well, no better, in a penal sense, than the last mass-murderer executed for his/her crimes against humanity. In this case, living life doing philosophy is just one heck of a long shrift.
  • JerseyFlight
    782
    In this case, living life doing philosophy is just one heck of a long shrift.TheMadFool

    wtf?
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    wtf?JerseyFlight

    Like a dog — Josef K
  • magritte
    553
    Plato says that philosophy is a preparation for deathbccampello

    Did Plato say that or was it the character Socrates in a dramatic dialogue.
    Shakespeare says "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse" or was it said by the title character in a play?
  • JerseyFlight
    782
    Did Plato say that or was it the character Socrates in a dramatic dialogue.magritte

    Socrates in the Apology. But if your point is to play a game of Plato versus Socrates for attribution, this is a total waste of time and doesn't even make contact with the original post.
  • magritte
    553
    The two philosophers had different agendas. Plato wasn't the one who argued his way to the hemlock.
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