• Yozhura
    40
    Here's a thought experiment i came up while gazing at the stars today.

    Think of yourself as a clock, which has a limited amount of time, depending on it's battery. Once time runs out, clock stops ticking, end of life. Your actions have effect on it, either positive or negative. How should you act in a situation like this?

    By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new battery, new battery gives you a certain amount of time, until that battery runs out again. Do you benefit humanity enough, that you'll be able to obtain a new battery, before the time of your clock ends?
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new battery, new battery gives you a certain amount of time, until that battery runs out again. Do you benefit humanity enough, that you'll be able to obtain a new battery, before the time of your clock ends?Yozhura

    Immortality can only be achieved by egoism. You, a human Being, is finite in existence, but your ego is not – as in the meaning of legacy –. Egoism is the only way to exist that eternalizes something finite – like Being – in something infinite– in ideas and in the world outside the individual –.
  • Yozhura
    40
    Immortality can only be achieved by egoism.Gus Lamarch

    I do agree that human ego is the driving force of humanity, because we are finite, we need to obtain more as fast as possible. That is possible only, because of our ego.
  • Outlander
    608
    By benefiting humanity, you increase the chances of getting a new batteryYozhura

    How so. To benefit others you have to sacrifice something.
  • Yozhura
    40
    To benefit others you have to sacrifice something.Outlander

    By benefiting others, you're also improving the quality of your life. By sacrificing something for others, you're gaining more back.
  • Outlander
    608
    By benefiting others, you're also improving the quality of your life. By sacrificing something for others, you're gaining more back.Yozhura

    Is that really a sacrifice then or a mere investment? I like the idea. List a few examples for us.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    I do agree that human ego is the driving force of humanity, because we are finite, we need to obtain more as fast as possible. That is possible only, because of our ego.Yozhura

    I would go so far as to say that human nature is that of egoism. The moment we move from the state of Not Being to the state of Being, we become egoists. Existence demands the realization of the individual.
  • Yozhura
    40
    Existence demands the realization of the individual.Gus Lamarch

    We are at the point, where we're realizing our individuality, but what is the next step? I think becoming an individual being called humanity is the next step for our species. Collect all the knowledge individual humans have obtained and gathering it into a single point. Hivemind is a pretty close term for that.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    Hivemind is a pretty close term for that.Yozhura

    Humanity has idealized this since its beginnings – God.
  • Yozhura
    40
    List a few examples for usOutlander

    You should look to improve yourself for the sake of humanity, not because of yourself. Find the strengths and weaknesses you have and decide a path, that works for you. You shouldn't look to benefit yourselves, like our current society works, because that causes a lot of problems. When you benefit other individuals with your actions, they will benefit you, because you have been of benefit for them. If we act in a way that is beneficial to others, those benefits accumulate and you will always gain more back, hence you could call it investment instead of sacrifice.
    Is that really a sacrifice then or a mere investment?Outlander
  • Yozhura
    40
    Humanity has idealized this since its beginnings – God.Gus Lamarch

    Indeed, that is the path we've been going towards since the beginning, there is no way to stop it. How fast and how safely we get there, that is something we can affect and should affect. You could say, that the big bang was the first clock to be wound up. We as humanity need to be able to change that battery, before our universe comes to an end.
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    When you change the batter, the unit is temporarily out of service.

    If the unit itself sets out to change its own battery, then it will never happen; it may be able to take out the old battery, but the unit can't put a battery in while it's inoperational due to not having battery power.
  • Yozhura
    40
    If the unit itself sets out to change its own battery, then it will never happen; it may be able to take out the old battery, but the unit can't put a battery in while it's inoperational due to not having battery power.god must be atheist

    Exactly, You need someone else to change your battery, that is the reason we should always try to work together. By working together, you're increasing the chances of someone, whom you've benefited, to be there to change your battery for you, when the time is nigh.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    We as humanity need to be able to change that battery, before our universe comes to an end.Yozhura

    If we are going to get into astronomy here, I'll already tell you my position on this subject: Humanity will not go beyond our solar system - if it continues to act and think in the way it currently does and has always done -, imagine becoming "One". At the monumental dimension of the Universe - whatever it is - we are nothing.
  • Yozhura
    40
    if it continues to act and think in the way it currently doesGus Lamarch

    Exactly, that is why we need change. Individuality comes at a price, when your population grows too big. That is the reason we need to become whole again. We started as a whole, which split apart at the beginning. Now is the time, for that to happen again, but this time, we as humanity have to become whole.
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    ou need someone else to change your battery, that is the reason we should always try to work together. By working together, you're increasing the chances of someone, whom you've benefited, to be there to change your battery for you, when the time is nigh.Yozhura

    Rght. But when you battery stops, do you get the same identity back when the new battery gets put in? Does your system not go back to factory condition?

    It does not necessarily have to go back to that, but according to the metaphor the battery sustains life. Once life stops in you, it can't be restarted. Not in the case of humans, anyway. So... your body may be resurrected, but it will be a different person, and your memories, personality characteristics, abilities, etc. all might be different, not to mention that you won't have the same conscience.
  • Yozhura
    40
    Might start writing a story/book around this subject. I was enlightened yesterday, when i thought this up. It totally changed the way i view myself and humanity. Everything makes so much more sense, once you think of life this way.
  • Yozhura
    40
    But when you battery stops, do you get the same identity back when the new battery gets put in?god must be atheist

    That is something, that we will have to see in the future. There is no promise, that a battery change wouldn't change your being. It is a large part of yourself as you may imagine.
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    At the monumental dimension of the Universe - whatever it is - we are nothing.Gus Lamarch

    Interesting. I always thought that at the monumental dimensions of the Universe, any finite object is nothing. But apparently it's just us? Others are not nothing, compared to the monumental dimensions of the Universe? Would be interesting to hear your point of view on that.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    We started as a whole, which split apart at the beginning.Yozhura

    When did this happen? My knowledge - which I admit to be basic - in biology says that the only point where we "all" were the same was more than 3.5 billion years ago when the first forms of life began to emerge. Humanity - as far as Homo Sapiens Sapiens is concerned - appeared less than 200 thousand years ago, and even then, we were never from a hegemonic culture, or biological race. When you become, you are already unique and individual.
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    There is no promise, that a battery change wouldn't change your being. It is a large part of yourself as you may imagine.Yozhura

    No, sir, the battery won't change you. It is simply a power supply. What will change you is that you lose everything at the time of death; and the new you, that is, the body that the new battery brings to life, will have different experiences from the body you first had.

    I don't know if you can see that. If not, I can explain.
  • Yozhura
    40

    You could say that there was nothing, before our universe began. If this is not correct, it would change a lot. A big bang, the beginning of our universe, that is the moment when everything was whole. Individuality started to split from the whole, creating everything in our universe.
  • Yozhura
    40

    I understand what you're implying. I think this idea could go well with the ouroboros? If your battery is replaced (reincarnation), you might not know of your past time, even though you're the same unit with a different energy source.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    Would be interesting to hear your point of view on that.god must be atheist

    I was referring to humanity's stereotyped concept of projecting itself into the future and controlling the galaxy, bringing democracy to other species and being technologically highly evolved. The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age. But you never know what the future can bring us; it can be much worse.
  • Yozhura
    40
    The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age.Gus Lamarch

    Are you knowledgeable of the Great Filter?
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    I was referring to humanity's stereotyped concept of projecting itself into the future and controlling the galaxy, bringing democracy to other species and being technologically highly evolved. The most plausible view today is that the entire contemporary society will collapse in the next 100 or 150 years and we will enter a new dark age. But you never know what the future can bring us; it can be much worse.Gus Lamarch

    Thanks. I agree on every point. How does that compare to the monumental dimensions of the Universe, though?
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    You could say that there was nothing, before our universe began. If this is not correct, it would change a lot. A big bang, the beginning of our universe, that is the moment when everything was whole. Individuality started to split from the whole, creating everything in our universe.Yozhura

    I still prefer not to give an opinion on the beginning of the Universe, because the most advanced scientific theories that we have today - such as the Big Bang - bring us at most an "possibly" as an answer.
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    Are you knowledgeable of the Great Filter?Yozhura

    Yes.
  • Yozhura
    40
    the most advanced scientific theories that we have today - such as the Big Bang - bring us at most an "possibly" as an answer.Gus Lamarch

    Exactly, no matter how much we hypothetically think of the problem, our technological advancements aren't enough to determine what is life and our universe.

    However, in my opinion, we should start thinking of all the possible futures and act towards the best one. Technology advances at an exponential rate, which means, how many more folds do we need?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFMJC45f1Q
  • Gus Lamarch
    438
    How does that compare to the monumental dimensions of the Universe, though?god must be atheist

    The enormous scale of the Universe cannot be compared. We like to pretend that we can achieve this greatness of it.
  • god must be atheist
    2.2k
    The enormous scale of the Universe cannot be compared. We like to pretend that we can achieve this greatness of it.Gus Lamarch

    Aha. Okay.
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