• dimension72
    33
    I'm not sure this is right for this website (I'm relatively new), but I suppose since it's a general "pursuit of wisdom" it will slide. It also has to do with ego and sense of self. The question I asked my self is "What's the best way to not care what others say about you?" To not be embarrassed or self-conscious in front of people, a crowd, etc. and feel in a way totally and fully relaxed. I think you'd have to let go of your sense of self, your ego, and your sense of pride in yourself. Letting go of the image you're trying to cultivate. Now we're told by scientists that this stuff is hardwired into our brains, so it's probably harder said than done to just let it all go.

    Your focus would have to be on a task or goal you're trying to accomplish instead of on yourself. Focusing on other people instead of yourself. And having a short memory also I'm sure helps. When you cling on to a certain strain of thinking like "what are they up to" or "what are they thinking about me" or the like, it's like falling into that trap again. It's easy to feel calm and relaxed behind a computer screen with a random username and no information about yourself. But when your name and body is out there and visible it's a different story.
  • Judaka
    898

    I think it'd help not to conflate different things
    (1) Public Speaking
    This is really not something you can overcome with philosophy, you just need to subject yourself to the experience until you get used to it. I think anyone who practices public speaking will overcome the fear, none of the things you listed matter here.

    (2) Being Outgoing
    It's not much different than the former except your upbringing, personality and other factors play a role here. I just don't think that it requires letting go of your sense of self or pride in yourself at all. You can still deeply care about what others think and be outgoing.

    (3) Caring about what you let others see
    I think there are various distinctions between what we "don't care about" which get ignored. You can not care about what others think and still be angry when others see you fail. What bothers the individual here is not the opinions of others but a host of other things. Let's say I am playing a game and you're watching me and I make a mistake, I might be deeply unhappy about this situation. You assure me "no worries, I make mistakes like that all the time" or say nothing at all, it doesn't actually matter what you do. I just want to show a perfect side of myself and I hate it when other people see me make mistakes, regardless of what you think.

    (4) Caring about what others think
    I think this in of itself is not a problem, this is not something anyone should be trying to fix. The issue is the word "care" not being sufficient. I assume we are actually talking about having anxiety about people thinking poorly of you. I think the correct link in the chain to assault is "what does it mean for someone to think poorly of me?" I care about what people think about me but not because I'm desperate to ensure everyone has a good opinion of me. I can ask "what are they thinking about me" without being emotionally attached to the answer.

    I would offer totally different advice to achieve this, you must be very careful about what you base your ego on, your pride on, your sense of self. It is only logical that should you base these things on what others think on you then what others think of you can only be very important. When you base it on something more sturdy, something which you are in control of then these problems are reduced.
  • Outlander
    573


    Are you actively being the best "you" you can be, actively working towards becoming so, or have done so tirelessly?

    If not, you should care about beneficial criticism, even if you do have to extract it from vile toxicity after the fact.

    People who live the way you describe are simply not grounded in something greater than themselves or any one other person or even group of people. Be it religion, science, family, morality, faith, or simple lack of it, you need to pick a reliable place to stand on and keep your footing. You sound young. Good for you. Believe it or not, you'll miss these times later.
  • jgill
    787
    Wiki, Sartre's The Look: "The mere possible presence of another person causes one to look at oneself as an object and see one's world as it appears to the other. This is not done from a specific location outside oneself, but is non-positional. This is a recognition of the subjectivity in others."

    This is deeper than simply not caring what others think. As a former outdoors athlete I experienced this many times. And it wasn't related to safety or competition issues. The mere presence of another changes the experience.
  • dimension72
    33
    I think this in of itself is not a problem, this is not something anyone should be trying to fix. The issue is the word "care" not being sufficient.Judaka

    Care is quite a vague term. I really mean in all types of situations where you become self-conscious. In other words, where you solely focus on yourself.
  • Gus Lamarch
    348
    harder said than done to just let it all go.dimension72

    Greek tragedy is a good example of what you bring here. The point is that "all" individuals feel something that makes them uncomfortable - like being aware of yourself in a public speech -; the difference is in the attitude of the afflicted person towards the situation. An act of courage does not arise when cowardice disappears. It only arises from the direct clash against craveness, it is the same circumstance for embarrassment, shyness, etc ..., and of course, there is no guarantee that the act of facing your weakness will bring you success, in fact, it is much more likely that you end up like Achiles and all his heroic personality - with an arrow in your tendon -. The fact is that only by facing your villains you'll better yourself, and even if you fail, you can be proud of having at least tried - something that more than 85% of the mass does not do -.

    In resume: - You'll only get to paradise, if you went through hell first.
  • Judaka
    898

    Hm, self-consciousness can be due to any of the four things and more, I don't think the solution can be to let go of your sense of self, or ego, or pride, those things are very important and you can't get rid of them even if you wanted to. The solution really depends on the cause and there are many causes and contexts.
  • ssu
    3.2k

    To have self esteem is difficult especially if you are young.

    And just stick to the logic of your argument and understand that once people feel they can lose face if they lose their argument, they become very hostile in an discussion. Once you understand that, it's far more easy. It really isn't personal.
  • dimension72
    33
    But that's the thing. I think there are ways to "let go of your sense of self, or ego, or pride". Doing something you would normally never do, like wear ridiculous clothes, changing your appearance drastically, screaming in a library, etc. - I'm not saying those are the "solutions" but they sure do put your ego in perspective, say if you're cultivating a "normal" and "fitting in" image.
  • dimension72
    33
    And just stick to the logic of your argument and understand that once people feel they can lose face if they lose their argument, they become very hostile in an discussion. Once you understand that, it's far more easy. It really isn't personal.ssu

    This is a wonderful example because it can applied to what we're talking about right now. I'm arguing something and for some odd reason I'm mixing in my ego into what I'm saying. My words have come from my brain, I want to appear "smart", etc. Competitive drive, especially in men- like road rage for example.
  • dimension72
    33
    This is deeper than simply not caring what others think. As a former outdoors athlete I experienced this many times. And it wasn't related to safety or competition issues. The mere presence of another changes the experience.jgill

    But not caring what others think, or to allude what you were saying: to not be effected by the presence of others

    Some people are great at it- and I'm not talking about the loud clamorous noisy individuals (who care the most about being correct)
  • Judaka
    898

    Even if there were ways, these things are crucially important, how could you trade them away to stop being self-conscious? I can be self-conscious, I think that comes with being generally conscious but why is this such a terrible thing that you'd go to such drastic measures? Or do you just not see them as being drastic somehow?
  • dimension72
    33
    these things are crucially importantJudaka

    Why?

    There's no way to be a computer and have no ego or sense of self. Because you wake up every morning and have to eat something. So, it can't be wiped out completely, but they can be changed. It doesn't have to be this miserable burden when around others.
  • ssu
    3.2k
    This is a wonderful example because it can applied to what we're talking about right now. I'm arguing something and for some odd reason I'm mixing in my ego into what I'm saying. My words have come from my brain, I want to appear "smart", etc. Competitive drive, especially in men- like road rage for example.dimension72

    And I have no clue who you are, where you come, what you feel, so really, my answer is truly generic and really not personal. Here you don't have to be smart, because who is? What you have to do is to oblige with the Forum rules as otherwise if you'll be next to be noticed in "Banned" thread. The administrators are very consistent and logical in their job. Otherwise, as many people have already answered to your thread, that tells you that you aren't totally off and haven't left others so clueless, that they wouldn't bother to answer.

    Not caring what others think is very important in life, if you understand the simple guidelines that you don't attack or ridicule people without a truly large and an evident reason (as that may happen sometimes, if rarely does). And notice the obvious: if someone makes a truly nasty ad hominem attack out of the blue, likely he or she has some personal problems or something and others will notice it. That and being laughed at is the fact we fear so much about what others think. Going over it can be difficult, but not impossible.
  • Valentinus
    809

    A lot of things are scripted. And you have to decide if you will try to meet those requirements or do something else.
    A lot of the non-scripted narratives are scripted too.
    Not caring what others think is not a place. There is no army arrayed against you. Unless one has been been arranged.
    But they would not do that just for you.
  • Judaka
    898

    I feel like what you're proposing is similar to cutting out one's stomach because they're tired of being hungry. Technically, you're right, if you had no ego or sense of self then how can you be self-conscious but this is the worst possible approach to the problem. Instead of trying to not be self-conscious, which might be impossible, I certainly never ask myself if someone is at times self-conscious or not, people just hand it in different ways, I would propose we should try to think of self-consciousness as a problem not to be solved but to be managed.

    Hm, just a very difficult topic to talk about so generally. It depends on where the problem actually lies, why is being self-conscious so miserable?
  • dimension72
    33
    It can't be cut out entirely, but you can slap a gastric band on it. In other words you can control the amount you feel "effected by the presence of others" (as noted above). Or perhaps if it's not you controlling it, something else behind the scenes.
  • Judaka
    898

    I disagree with this approach but it seems you are resolved. Certainly what you propose, getting out of your comfort zone, may help. I think oftentimes we search for complex answers but the simple answer is the best, experiencing the worst-case scenario, what you absolutely fear, may help you to overcome it. Or it may leave you traumatised who knows?
  • creativesoul
    8.7k
    Caring what others think about us is inevitable. Blindly following(agreeing with/to) the value system underwriting the judgment of others about us is not necessarily.

    The lbgtq community is chock full of people who have cast that value system aside, for example.

    The US is amidst a similar transformation between old white racist beliefs and new more inclusive, less fearful(xenophobic) ones...
  • Possibility
    1.5k
    I'm not sure this is right for this website (I'm relatively new), but I suppose since it's a general "pursuit of wisdom" it will slide. It also has to do with ego and sense of self. The question I asked my self is "What's the best way to not care what others say about you?" To not be embarrassed or self-conscious in front of people, a crowd, etc. and feel in a way totally and fully relaxed. I think you'd have to let go of your sense of self, your ego, and your sense of pride in yourself. Letting go of the image you're trying to cultivate. Now we're told by scientists that this stuff is hardwired into our brains, so it's probably harder said than done to just let it all go.

    Your focus would have to be on a task or goal you're trying to accomplish instead of on yourself. Focusing on other people instead of yourself. And having a short memory also I'm sure helps. When you cling on to a certain strain of thinking like "what are they up to" or "what are they thinking about me" or the like, it's like falling into that trap again. It's easy to feel calm and relaxed behind a computer screen with a random username and no information about yourself. But when your name and body is out there and visible it's a different story.
    dimension72

    It seems to me like you’ve observed others who don’t appear to care what others say about them, are not embarrassed or self-conscious in front of people, and wish you were more like them. I can relate. I’d argue that what you’re wanting here is to be less aware. Your capacity to focus on a task or goal as well as on other people and on yourself is a mark of efficiency in the brain’s structure - not something to be suppressed. Ignorance is not bliss - it only appears so from a position of painful awareness.

    Humiliation is a natural part of the learning process: it’s simply a recognition that our prediction of reality doesn’t match the sensory input. Your brain, hidden away within the skull, relies for its decisions on a conceptual system it has gradually constructed from the sensory input of past interactions. It makes ongoing predictions and continually refines them according to a limited distribution of attention to sensory input, both external and internal. And the younger you are, the more you will experience prediction error that requires adjustment to your conceptual systems, and with them your tightly budgeted energy distribution structures, hence the experiences of pain and humiliation.

    What you’re referring to, however, is an apperception of the conceptual systems themselves: an awareness of your capacity to experience humiliation in a given situation, regardless of it actually occurring. If you pay attention, though, you may recognise that you’re not only conscious of potential embarrassment, but also the potential for success - and that with practise and patience you can perceive (more clearly than most), and find a way to effect, the best course of action.

    You won’t benefit from ignoring or even finding some way to dull your sense of self, your ego, or sense of pride in yourself. These are important to the learning process. You need to get past your fear of prediction error, by gradually increasing awareness of your capacity for experiencing humiliation or pain, and recovering. The high efficiency of your brain in apperceiving potential may make this easier for you than most: you can learn more from mental simulations and empathising with the experiences of others than some people manage over a lifetime of experience. Use this, and don’t let anyone tell you that your actual experience is more important.

    I don’t know which scientist told you that your brain is ‘hardwired’, but current neuroscience would dispute this essentialist view. Read Norman Doidge’s ‘The Brain That Changes Itself’, and/or Lisa Feldman Barrett’s ‘How Emotions Are Made’ for constructionist perspectives backed by more recent neuroscience. And strive to understand quantum theory - I have a feeling you may find it surprisingly intuitive.
  • Noble Dust
    3.9k


    To not care what others think seems to mean the process of suppressing the ego. Which is not easy, and not done via philosophy.
  • dimension72
    33
    Which is not easy, and not done via philosophy.Noble Dust

    I want to hear more... ;)
  • TheMadFool
    7.1k
    It's a weird question. The idea of a forum, other similar platforms, is to exchange ideas; to be precise, to care what others think and, let's not forget, for others to, likewise, care what you think.

    I suppose you're talking about times when others think you are wrong or that your views are stupid. In that case, you do yourself a big favor by caring more - you found out you're wrong/idiotic, you don't want to stay that way for the rest of your life, right?
  • dimension72
    33
    OK, that's the literal way of taking the question. I care (literally) what you think and I care about seeking wisdom. By titling this "Not caring what others think", I meant more a reference to the social maxim /proverbial saying. So, that is; the effect of others --
    see above
    The mere presence of another changes the experience.jgill
  • TheMadFool
    7.1k
    The mere presence of another changes the experience.jgill

    In what sense does the presence of another change our experience?
  • Noble Dust
    3.9k


    How can you use abstract philosophical concepts to temper your ego? In day to day, minute to minute life?
  • dimension72
    33
    I think of philosophy as the general "pursuit of knowledge". And so there really is no such thing as abstractedness. Everything we say here applies to our life.
  • dimension72
    33
    Compare your feeling and actions when you're in a room by yourself versus when there are others (or say strangers) in the room.
  • Jack Cummins
    23
    I wish that I did not care about what others think of me but I am afraid that I still do. I am not sure if I care whether they like me but I do value others opinions. My self esteem and self worth is affected by narcissistic.
    Life in post lockdown has become more solitary for many including myself. I am comfortable being alone for long periods, which I know that many people find hard to tolerate but significant others opinions of me do intrude into my consciousness.
    I have experienced a fair amount of rejection and criticism and such experiences often feature in my dreams and if I have such dreams I feel out of sorts on the following day.
    One friend told me recently that I care too much what others think of me and I said that I care about the opinions of certain people but not everybody. I am not sure if it would even be desirable not to care about what anyone thinks because it would like being in an autistic bubble.
    To some extent it is probably ego consciousness which is focusing on others' opinions. I am far less bothered about what others think of me than my earlier years. During my teenage years I was extremely self conscious about my appearance and about others reaction to things I said and did. I have come along way from that but still feel sensitive. I am unsure if my sensitivity is a curse or blessing.
    To be free of any sensitivity would be to deny the social aspects of being human but on the other hand too much sensitivity to others reactions can inhibit and inhibit daily life and creative freedom. My own ideal would be to tune this sensitivity to positivity, as a spur to inspire creativity and artistic freedom.
  • Possibility
    1.5k
    Sensitivity or self-consciousness, as an acute awareness of potentiality in our relation to the world, can certainly feel like a curse. It can sap our energy to attend to all of this five-dimensional information, with little observable effect in processing it, except that we feel so much more than it seems practical to express.

    The world seems so focused on the physical aspects of experience, that all this ‘extra’ experience we have can feel like a burden. But this information you are gaining about the world is precisely what we all need to understand better. Learning to balance your energy distribution, by choosing how best to interact with the world that enables you to make use of this information, takes time. Periods of isolation and self-reflection, where you have time to process five-dimensional information at your own pace, can help to cope with those situations that overwhelm, and enable you to map a future plan of attack. You may find autism or anxiety management strategies to be surprisingly helpful for your own self-management. The difference I have found between my sensitivity and those with autism/anxiety is the capacity I have to find my own balance.

    Explore your creative capacity - learn the usefulness of both qualitative and quantitative potential information by practising rendering skills that employ both: from fine art to quantum physics. I found my home in non-profit marketing, where I can apply my ‘intuitive’ sensitivity to positive media communications.

    I think we need to stop believing we are ‘too sensitive’, and start to embrace the idea that we possess a higher capacity to increase awareness, connection and collaboration with the world.
  • Jack Cummins
    23
    Yes, I agree with Possibity that it is problematic when there is too much emphasis on physical reality and that we need to be able to be given space to process five dimensional reality.
    I have felt that for about 5 to 10 years that my relationships have become strained due to this sensitivity. In a work context I explain I once mentioned that I felt that some of my own work difficulties was because I was aware of five dimensional reality and I think she thought that I was psychotic.In actually I don't even think that I am more dyspraxic than autistic but I do find that I need private time to reflect and if I am put in social situations where this is difficult I get really stressed.
    I believe that the Covid_19 crisis is not simply a battle against death as the government tries to make it sound but about a redefinition of boundaries in social connections. It is difficult for all of us because so much guilt is around, so much guilt about fear of the virus and giving it to others.
    Personally, I think my biggest stumbling block in struggling with other people's opinions is when I am made to feel guilty. I have an elderly mother and she and friends of hers often say things which imply that I should always be thinking of her first and we have no other living relatives. This affects me terribly but obviously all families and social groups have problems.
    I think it is more difficult if people are able to name or conceptualize their emotional sensitive areas. I can identify mine but struggle if I cannot get the private space to process it all.
    The aspect of social life that I miss most with the current pandemic is libraries because they have been my sacred sanctuaries ever since adolescence. I have plenty of books but they are they are such wonderful places for thinking, with just the right amount of human contact.
    But I do think that for many people social distancing is so difficult because they are not used to spending time by themselves and standing back from physical and social reality. Social interaction has positive and negative aspects which impact on us and, yes, it is so hard at times to remain balanced by being pulled unconsciously into the sway of detrimental views and judgements of others.
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