Eh? How is that? How did supernatural become natural?1. No restrictions: all possibilities that we can and cannot imagine are there. The problem is that this includes supernatural because we imagine it - fatal for materialism; — Eugen
Conclusion: even if the reality is infinite, materialism has to go back at the same core-issue and prove consciousness either does not exist, or to state the identity theory, both having very implausible successful outcomes.
''Consciousness is special'' imply:
1. Strong emergence/panpsychism/dualism, other non-materialistic views
2. It exists
3. Movement of atoms in the brain are not the same thing with consciousness — Eugen
Strong emergence/panpsychism/dualism, other non-materialistic views — Eugen
What you define as supernatural for this universe may be natural in other universes.How did supernatural become natural? — tim wood
The identity theory seems to mean that consciousness is accounted for by physical nature. Is there a problem with that? — tim wood
who decides what's physical, natural and what is not? — Eugen
Basically, whatever is metaphysically necessary for minds as we know them either happens for nothing (eliminative materialism), for only some things (dualism, and strong emergentism), or everything (panpsychism). Only the first and last are really compatible with physicalism, the middle ones are not. — Pfhorrest
How did supernatural become natural?
— tim wood
1) What you define as supernatural for this universe may be natural in other universes.
The identity theory seems to mean that consciousness is accounted for by physical nature. Is there a problem with that?
— tim wood
You were a bit vague with that. The identity theory states that consciousness is exactly the same thing with a particular particles interaction, not an effect of that, not correlated with it. Is there a problem with that? Many say it is, but it is not the topic of this discussion. — Eugen
And you missed this.I do not understand the reasoning in your OP. What is your point, your conclusion? What the arguments for it? — tim wood
And you missed this.
If you want a discussion on the basis anything is possible, therefore is, have at it - but what's the point? — tim wood
But let's assume there's a law of nature that allows consciousness to exist only in some circumstances, — Eugen
It seems to me consciousness is an accident of time, place, and circumstance. What does that, or any account of it, have to do with larger issues of cosmology? — tim wood
Absolute Infinity does indeed imply that all things are possible, and all possible things are actual. But the Multiverse is not timeless or changeless, hence not absolute. Instead, it is a dynamic directional process with no known beginning and an unknowable ending. Only spaceless-timeless Infinity-Eternity (Enfernity) is absolute. And the powers of being & causation exist necessarily in Enfernity.So let's play this game and assume we have an infinite Mega/Multi-verse: — Eugen
That is similar to my kind of functionalist panpsychism. On my account, everything has whatever is metaphysically necessary for conscious experience, everything in some trivial sense “has experience”, but what that experience is like depends entirely on the function of the thing, and consciousness proper is a kind of reflective functionality, self-awareness basically, and only things that have that functionality have what we ordinarily mean by “conscious experience”. But it’s not like the emergentist account where when mindless matter arranges just right suddenly a new kind of thing, mind, occurs; rather, the elementary constituents of mind are already present in everything, and fully fledged mind as we usually mean it is built up out of that just like our physical behaviors are built up out of the physical behaviors of the atoms etc we’re made of. — Pfhorrest
Absolute Infinity does indeed imply that all things are possible, and all possible things are actual. But the Multiverse is not timeless or changeless, hence not absolute. Instead, it is a dynamic directional process with no known beginning and an unknowable ending. Only spaceless-timeless Infinity-Eternity (Enfernity) is absolute. And the powers of being & causation exist necessarily in Enfernity. — Gnomon
It seems to me consciousness is an accident — tim wood
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