• Chester
    377
    Why don't the liberal left boycott goods manufactured by despotic regimes ? I've never once seen the left initiate such a boycott...apart from South Africa during apartheid . Why is China acceptable but the old South Africa not ?
    1. Should the left boycott Chinese goods? (5 votes)
        Yes, it makes sense to boycott goods made by slave labour.
        40%
        No, if it's a bit cheaper made in China then carry on, I'm buying.
        60%
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    I remember the SA boycott, and had a veg shop that joined in. But these days I find it hard to find a government or regime that is substantially worse than our own. If China then certainly Brazil, Israel, Sri Lanka Russia, Saudi Arabia... the shelves would be very empty.
  • Chester
    377
    It's true that no country is perfect but to include Brazil and Israel in with China is a bit of a stretch. China actively imprisons people for their religious beliefs and political ideas. Also even if you boycotted states that you considered bad there would still be plenty of choice...electronics from S Korea, Taiwan, food and wines from Europe, N America.

    Maybe you're just looking for an excuse to carry on buying Chinese goods? Do you agree that it would be ethically better to buy a phone made in S Korea (Samsung) than China (Huawei) ?
  • ztaziz
    91
    Is this a question of ruling out chinese debt in America?

    I agree to it, these are bad contracts.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    China actively imprisons people for their religious beliefs and political ideas.Chester

    So does Israel. So does the US.
  • ztaziz
    91
    but the US has an amount of heart behind it's politics where as China is less professional, very clouded information.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    Just saying I'm not so sure who the good guys are right now. You think you get unclouded information from The US? Go get that disinfectant fix then. you have it on the highest authority from a very stable genius.
  • ztaziz
    91

    The US broadcasts a lot and associates, we mean good by our contracts and can rule out debt by some higher ground than what's on paper. Are china the enemy of the united states because of the South China Sea and more? This is how much we know about them. Because of such disinformation I will rule out all Chinese debt. Aren't a lot of so called enemy nations pursuing some religious cause against America? A lot of enemy nation citizens have shown their hate publically for America. There are a lot of hate groups. This has cause a massive social problem, thus no more debt.
  • CeleRate
    74


    Much of Taiwan's manufacturing is in China.
    The list of American companies with manufacturing in China is frighteningly long. This is just a partial list:

    http://www.jiesworld.com/international_corporations_in_china.htm
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    The US broadcasts a lot and associates, we mean good by our contracts and can rule out debt by some higher ground than what's on paper.ztaziz

    OH just fuck off with the bullshit already. I mean good with my sarcasm too. It's simple; The S.African government had an overt, declared racist policy. It wasn't an aberration, it was the way politics was conducted from top to bottom. Such a situation does not apply to China, and that's why people of the left like me, who participated in the boycott of S. Africa, would not participate in a boycott of China. I do. however, participate in a boycott of Israel though as it happens, because they also have an overt declared racist policy. China is just another venal dictatorship, not much different from America or Europe or Russia.
  • Chester
    377
    To equate the US and Israel with China is outrageous...but I'll let that slip provided you admit that the CCP is a vile organisation that totally dominates Chinese life...at least Israel and the US has freedom of speech (although many leftists seek to end that) and a democratic process of sorts.

    Most people in the world given the choice of living in the States or China would pick the States for obvious reasons...to deny this would be silly.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    To equate the US and Israel with China is outrageousChester

    According to your religion mate, but not mine. You asked a question, and as it happens I am qualified to answer. You don't like my answer, but the world isn't always what we like. What you expose is that you are of the liberal right, and wanting us lefties to do your dirty work for you while you continue to benefit from massive trade with China. Ain't gonna happen.
  • ztaziz
    91
    I dunno it just seems fake the atmosphere we get from such deals.

    Such deals are more attacking deals.

    If you were really to change my mind you would have to show more heart to the west.
  • Harry Hindu
    4.2k
    It's simple; The S.African government had an overt, declared racist policy. It wasn't an aberration, it was the way politics was conducted from top to bottom. Such a situation does not apply to China, and that's why people of the left like me, who participated in the boycott of S. Africa, would not participate in a boycott of Chinaunenlightened
    Hypocrisy.
    It is kind of difficult to be racist when your whole country consists of one race. But then the final outcome of unfettered racism is that there only be one race in your country.
  • Chester
    377

    My politics are right-wing insofar as I believe in Individual rights and responsibilities over group rights. I also believe in decent minimum standards with regard to pay and conditions for workers.Those things I just stated are better represented in the US and Israel rather than China, that is obvious to 99% of people.

    I want to end trade with China, or have conditional trade...but for some strange reason leftist liberal types want to carry on buying their iphones...they don't care about the oppression of the Chinese people , strange.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    for some strange reasonChester

    Yeah. I am a leftist, and I just gave you my reason. So don't blame me because you greedy Yanks are addicted to American crap made for you by China. It's not like the US is dominated by the left.
  • Chester
    377
    So you should only boycott countries that engage in racism...nothing else warrants a boycott. The Chinese can bang people up just for being gay , muslim or pro-democracy, the liberal left is alright with that.
  • Chester
    377
    I'm English and thankfully lefties like you are a minority here (UK). Seems like it's ok to be anti "yank" in your world but not anti CCP....mmmm, nice.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    I'm EnglishChester

    My deepest sympathy.
  • Chester
    377
    I take it from that that you're one of those skirt wearing , rain soaked, miserable alcoholics the wrong side of Hadrian's wall lol.
  • tim wood
    7.7k
    China actively imprisons people for their religious beliefs and political ideas.
    — Chester

    .... So does the US.
    unenlightened

    I'm sure you're making a point, but I'm not getting it - my bad. But some names would help. What Americans are imprisoned as you describe?
  • unenlightened
    5.9k

    Have you heard of Guantanamo?

    Google gave me this list when I asked, but I haven't checked them all and of course there may be more...
  • Chester
    377
    Is that your way of saying every political, muslim or gay imprisoned in China is a terror suspect ? That people in Guantanamo are just there because of a non-violent view they expressed? There is no equivalence in what you suggest. The Guantanamo detainees were picked up in wars zones or for mixing with the enemies of the West.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    Is that your way of saying every political, muslim or gay imprisoned in China isChester

    When I want to talk about China, I'll let you know by saying "China". I'm fairly conventional about things like that. Let me show you.

    China is not a place I would like to live. I don't like a good deal of the government policies, and the corruption and authoritarianism of the society as exemplified by treatment of gays, Muslims Tibetans and other minorities is horrible. They are also not too hot on justice, reneging on the agreements about Hong Kong, and mistreating dissidents and protestors there and on the mainland. Having said that, it is hard to see how a more liberal approach could have brought the country from its state of total collapse and occupation by the Japanese, from a famine ridden medieval peasant condition in the space of just about 2 generations to the status of modern industrial superpower.
  • Frank Apisa
    2.1k
    Because of such disinformation I will rule out all Chinese debt. Aren't a lot of so called enemy nations pursuing some religious cause against America? A lot of enemy nation citizens have shown their hate publically for America. There are a lot of hate groups. This has cause a massive social problem, thus no more debt.ztaziz

    Not sure what this incoherent mess is supposed to mean, but if you are saying that we should default on our debts...stiffing the chines...you are a nuts as Mitch McConnell telling the blue states to declare bankruptcy.
  • Chester
    377
    Taiwan , Japan, Germany and South Korea have done quite well without a CCP type government ....Trying to pretend communism is good in some ways cuts no ice with me...communism is vile, it has murdered millions of its own citizens never mind anyone else's .
  • I like sushi
    2.5k
    I think the gist of the point was we don’t have many alternatives. It’s pretty clear that the ‘liberal left’ and no doubt many ‘right leaning’ people do actively pressure the manufacturers and shine a light on their practices - that’s why we know about it.

    I imagine the vast majority of people have more immediate worries, but that most would do what they could if they were shown how to.

    Why don’t the non-liberal right boycott? Does political leaning really matter? If you think so how and why, and evidence do you have to back up your position?
  • fdrake
    4.9k


    China's a state capitalist country. You can tell because they have workers who are payed to do jobs. One reason why we keep importing from there is that there is a major incentive in production to produce as much as cheaply as possible. UK companies who use human rights violating companies across the world get to feel like the blood isn't on their hands because it is shed elsewhere.

    It is also true that it is difficult for some in the UK to afford new clothes, electronics and so on. People live paycheck to paycheck for their entire lives, so it makes sense for them to minimise their costs and buy cheaply, supporting practices of production that violate human rights.

    So, a political discourse, media and politics that tries to hold the awful collusion between these parties accountable would be much better, and make it more likely to lead to the amelioration of UK companies supporting human rights violations abroad to maximise their profits, wouldn't you agree?

    Surely this is better than throwing "China, CCP, communism" at an imagined enemy of "left liberals", presumably living a similar life to you in the UK, and accusing them of hypocrisy, when it should be directed at the UK government's hypocritical collusion with known human rights violators while claiming to be champions of worker's rights.
  • tim wood
    7.7k
    Of course i have heard of Guantanamo, and that is a disgrace without qualification. But you said Americans, and I am unaware of any Americans at Guantanamo. As to your list, they were all convicted of crimes. Which is to say they were not imprisoned for their religious ideas or their politics. I do not rule you completely out-of-court, but only on the basis of what you wrote.
  • unenlightened
    5.9k
    As to your list, they were all convicted of crimes.tim wood

    Ah dude, will you extend you naive faith in justice to another jurisdiction, or is only American justice unfailing in its righteousness?

    But you said Americans,tim wood

    Did I? I think the post in question was this:

    China actively imprisons people for their religious beliefs and political ideas.
    — Chester

    So does Israel. So does the US.

    But perhaps you have something else in mind?

    Alas, I fear you must not like America to defend it so strongly; for my part I am always most critical of my closest friends. I expect less of strangers.
  • tim wood
    7.7k
    Alas, I fear you must not like America to defend it so strongly; for my part I am always most critical of my closest friends. I expect less of strangers.unenlightened

    Not at all a defense, but an objection to error. You may care to search the names on the list to see just what their religion or politics are. I started and have not finished, but I'm at one bank-robber and the rest killers/murderers. And the killings in question are of police. That's a bad look in any country, by any standard.
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