• Shawn
    10.4k
    I had a profound thought lately, despite my new medications causing me to feel rather insane. So, if the idea sounds insane, which it doesn't, then please let me know.

    I came to the conclusion, that conclusions deriving from altered value systems causes the most amount of grief. If a person is arriving at bad conclusions due to distorted value systems, then, the logical conclusion is to alter one's value system.

    Now, one may wonder, what's the utility of altering one's value system despite the above? The utility of altering one's value system in such cases as dysfunctional relationships or sinking marriages is to be found in the newfound sense of knowledge about one's "about" beliefs. The idea is rather counter-intuitive in that a person would honestly believe that the most precious thing for themselves is to entertain the attainment of value, found in the cold logic encoded by the presented rationale of their attainment as presented by their motivation for reward derived from their value system.

    Here's a world shaking belief instilled in a simple statement... Namely, how do baby giraffes survive in the Saharan savanna?


    The point is to find a shortcut over the now widespread belief that happiness is the ultimate goal for all human beings. This distorted belief is inconsistent with human behavior. People do not flock to Scandinavian countries just because people are more happy there. And, in many cases, people who do travel to said places, often find themselves unhappy rather than happy.

    I went about this problem in the following manner;

    1. I want to feel satisfied and not happy. Happiness will follow latter.
    2. I do this by appreciating things that were previously underappreciated, and hence discounted as things that I (thought) would bring about some sense of satisfaction in my life. This enhances my appreciation of what is valuable and worth indulging my efforts in appreciating if not procurement.
    3. I continue to do this by discounting the things that were once perceived to bring about happiness in my life, such as money, prestige, recognition, or even grand ideas such as fame, glory, honor, or some-such.

    4. What is left is to appreciate human traits such as persistence, gratitude, resilience, and even a small and strange belief, that depression, anxiety, and unhappiness have some semblance of truth telling in entertaining my notions of what constitutes what is desirable.

    Hence, to be happy (if that's what all that matters in such an impoverished world), is the logical conclusion that some things are out of one's control are truly to be appreciated since they dictate the happenings of my life.
  • Shawn
    10.4k
    A video, apropos:

  • Shawn
    10.4k
    I've been thinking a little about this line of reasoning, and the conclusion keeps on presented as a return to naturalism or instinct.

    Has anyone else arrived at the same conclusion, why or why not?
  • tim wood
    4k
    Getting healthy, are we?
  • god must be atheist
    2.1k
    Has anyone else arrived at the same conclusion, why or why not?Shawn

    I actually got very confused reading your script, and never got to the conclusion part. Or I did but I missed it.
  • Shawn
    10.4k
    Getting healthy, are we?tim wood

    Trying to.
  • TheMadFool
    5.2k
    The point is to find a shortcut over the now widespread belief that happiness is the ultimate goal for all human beings. This distorted belief is inconsistent with human behavior. People do not flock to Scandinavian countries just because people are more happy there.Shawn

    You're ignoring an essential part of the definition of happiness viz. the avoidance of pain. This isn't something you can apply your method to, for it seems to be a necessity/need unlike the other half of happiness, which we're familiar with as pleasure which is a want; speaking comparatively of course.

    Thus elaborated, it seems implausible that people don't seek happiness and make it a primary goal of their lives.
  • Shawn
    10.4k


    I don't believe it's as thus a dichotomy.

    What makes you think it's an avoidance of pain?
  • christian2017
    1.1k
    I had a profound thought lately, despite my new medications causing me to feel rather insane. So, if the idea sounds insane, which it doesn't, then please let me know.

    I came to the conclusion, that conclusions deriving from altered value systems causes the most amount of grief. If a person is arriving at bad conclusions due to distorted value systems, then, the logical conclusion is to alter one's value system.

    Now, one may wonder, what's the utility of altering one's value system despite the above? The utility of altering one's value system in such cases as dysfunctional relationships or sinking marriages is to be found in the newfound sense of knowledge about one's "about" beliefs. The idea is rather counter-intuitive in that a person would honestly believe that the most precious thing for themselves is to entertain the attainment of value, found in the cold logic encoded by the presented rationale of their attainment as presented by their motivation for reward derived from their value system.

    Here's a world shaking belief instilled in a simple statement... Namely, how do baby giraffes survive in the Saharan savanna?


    The point is to find a shortcut over the now widespread belief that happiness is the ultimate goal for all human beings. This distorted belief is inconsistent with human behavior. People do not flock to Scandinavian countries just because people are more happy there. And, in many cases, people who do travel to said places, often find themselves unhappy rather than happy.

    I went about this problem in the following manner;

    1. I want to feel satisfied and not happy. Happiness will follow latter.
    2. I do this by appreciating things that were previously underappreciated, and hence discounted as things that I (thought) would bring about some sense of satisfaction in my life. This enhances my appreciation of what is valuable and worth indulging my efforts in appreciating if not procurement.
    3. I continue to do this by discounting the things that were once perceived to bring about happiness in my life, such as money, prestige, recognition, or even grand ideas such as fame, glory, honor, or some-such.

    4. What is left is to appreciate human traits such as persistence, gratitude, resilience, and even a small and strange belief, that depression, anxiety, and unhappiness have some semblance of truth telling in entertaining my notions of what constitutes what is desirable.

    Hence, to be happy (if that's what all that matters in such an impoverished world), is the logical conclusion that some things are out of one's control are truly to be appreciated since they dictate the happenings of my life.
    Shawn

    Happiness or positive feelings are essentially the same things. Some use religion to try to reach that goal, and then there are a trillion other ways to attempt to get there. Being stoic is even a way to attempt to get there. Ofcourse the pursuit of happiness might only be an attempt to have it for 5 seconds or 5 minutes.

    When i say happiness i mean positive feelings to keep this simple.

    I would agree that flawed value system leads to bad results but all people like to be happy and/or have positive feelings as much as possible even if it is only on the individual level.

    That last sentence just seems like common sense. If you offer a person a steak or a bug a piece of creamed corn or a Vegan a portabello mushroom, they will take it at some point in their life. Due to the nature of happiness and suffering, people's secondary, third or fourth or X goal (sometimes first) is always to be happy or have positive feelings. If you've never been happy before, this would be very hard for me to prove to you.
  • christian2017
    1.1k


    I actually used to think very similar to you, so don't feel bad. #Shark_Fighter_Nation .
  • TheMadFool
    5.2k
    I don't believe it's as thus a dichotomy.

    What makes you think it's an avoidance of pain?
    Shawn

    Happiness has two aspects viz.

    1. Pleasure and our desire to seek it

    2. Pain and our desire to avoid it

    *Relatively speaking, pleasure is a want and avoidance of pain is a need

    You're argument proceeds by eliminating that which you conclude isn't necessary for happiness. However, as you will have noticed, the avoidance of pain is a need that defies any attempt to eliminate it. It follows then that people will desire the fulfillment of the need to avoid pain which, since its part of the meaning of happiness, implies that people will have happiness as a primary goal in their lives. You're ignoring the pain component of happiness.
  • Shawn
    10.4k
    Happiness has two aspects viz.

    1. Pleasure and our desire to seek it

    2. Pain and our desire to avoid it

    *Relatively speaking, pleasure is a want and avoidance of pain is a need
    TheMadFool

    This seems like an oversimplification in my view. Surely, there's more than one way to overcome an obstacle, or not?
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