Inverted Nirvana
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    I have a certain idea I have been entertaining as of late. Namely, the concept of an inverted Nirvana where, if, a person feels a certain disposition towards the cessation of life that they can choose when to die.

    Now, this might sound like a bland case of suicidal thinking but upon inspection there is a rationale to go by here.

    This rationale manifests in the sentiment that life is quite brutish and unpleasant. For some, this sentiment can attain such a degree of profoundness that they would willingly and in a personal manner, (non-destructive), choose to commit to the position that their choice overrides any metaphysically driven life affirmative desire.

    I do take it upon myself to point out that this is called "inverted Nirvana" because happiness is found in the will. The will is of greater strength than any happenstance of reality. Schopenhauer might have thought this was a rationally driven concept upon the foundation or premise that the will of Nature is constantly at work. Whereas, a person is limited to their own choice of affirmative action being positive or negative, the choice still remains in the hands of the subject in relation to the objective notion that the will of my own can in every future life (even if life is so absurd) to manifest in the decision to entertain this concept.

    I welcome others to this discussion and thoughts about why this doesn't only boil down to a matter of preference, but, has profoundly strong logical underpinnings.
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    Ethically speaking, one can extinguish ones flame without action. This is a rational position to live by and experience life.

    The Stoics would have been horrified... and, rightly so.
    Shawn Options
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    ↪Wallows


    Im not sure Id wax so poetic about it, but yes, suicide can be a perfectly rational, logical choice. People are always trying to project their own views about lifes sacredness and worth onto others, but I think you are right in observing that suicide isnt always and only the decision of the mentally ill or terminally suffering.
    I respect a persons right to decide when to die, or to suicide. Thats a bit of personal sovereignty I think is the least we can grant somebody. Its really the first and last bastion of true freedom. Forcing someone to live when theyd rather die is a horribly arrogant and patronising thing to do, a sort of torture even and its especially egregious when its motivated by that persons own fragile sense of mortality or selfish desire to hang in to their loved one.
    DingoJones Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪DingoJones


    Yes, but do take it upon yourself to analyze the deeper truth here. If one has rationally preemptively understood death, then there is nothing that can be further taken away from such a being, or not?
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    The profoundness is to be found in this sort of rationale in that a negative becomes unnecessary, yes?
    Shawn Options
  • praxis
    6.5k
    "inverted Nirvana" is antithetical to the concept of Nirvana because the concept points to an absence of polarity. For instance, in Buddhism, nirvana is samsara. The difference is considered to be merely an illusion.
    praxis Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪praxis


    Yes, but if I have died before death, and if this position is so much easier to attain, then it is of greater strength than merely an affirmation or denial...
    Shawn Options
  • praxis
    6.5k
    If we saw through the illusion then life/death wouldn't be so much of a concern, so they say. "Inverted Nirvana" is samsara or a continuation of suffering.

    Perhaps you should use other terms.
    praxis Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪praxis


    I don't think other terms are necessarily useful here. I have tried to be as succinct with words as possible, and these words were the only ones left to entertain.

    In a manner of speaking, one overrides this disgusting notion of servitude to the Will of Nature, whilst placing suicide ever so above life as to find it unattainable.
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    The grapes are indeed sour.
    Shawn Options
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    Yes, but do take it upon yourself to analyze the deeper truth here. If one has rationally preemptively understood death, then there is nothing that can be further taken away from such a being, or not? — Wallows

    Not really, that would only be the case if the person only has thier life that can be taken away. Many people have more to lose than their life.
    DingoJones Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪DingoJones


    Well yes. If a person chooses to entertain this concept, then responsibility and accountability become absurd to nourish.
    Shawn Options
  • praxis
    6.5k
    I guess that I just don't see how the concept of nirvana or "inverted nirvana" (suffering) plays a useful role in what you're saying.
    praxis Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪praxis


    Please provide something more to go about here. I have given you the template, so you are not left to affirm or deny it, yes?
    Shawn Options
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    Well yes. If a person chooses to entertain this concept, then responsibility and accountability become absurd to nourish. — Wallows

    Again I disagree. I see no reason why those things cant be separated by the concept.
    DingoJones Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪DingoJones


    Well, think of it this way...

    If I leave the possibility to entertain both notions at once by leaving open the possibility to have it both ways, then what's not to like about this position?
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    One must hedge for the notion of life allowing one to live in accordance to one's own Will...

    And, this is profoundly liberating.
    Shawn Options
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    ↪Wallows


    Sorry, you lost me on that one. Which notions both at once? What “both ways”?
    DingoJones Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪DingoJones


    There is no sophistry here, worry not.

    I meant it with regards specifically towards the notion of a negative arising in life.
    Shawn Options
  • praxis
    6.5k
    One must hedge for the notion of life allowing one to live in accordance to one's own Will... — Wallows

    rather than the will of nature (will to live)?
    praxis Options
  • DingoJones
    2.8k
    ↪Wallows


    Ok, thats one notion. Whats the other, and what “both ways? The notions are the ways? And what do you mean by “negative arising in life”?
    Sorry, Im having trouble with your terminology. Its not evident to me what you mean by them.
    DingoJones Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪praxis


    Yes and no. One can always leave open the possibility that life has cheated one and change their position towards it.
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    ↪DingoJones


    See above if that helps any...
    Shawn Options
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    Ok, that's enough from me, as there is a price to pay here.

    I don't want anyone to actually pay it, God willing.
    Shawn Options
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