• Deleted User
    0
    How To Attain Nibbana
    A logical, and psychoanalytic-eastern argument for the existence of Nibbana in the here-now:

    1. If basic needs as a child are not met (pain), as is always the case on some level, the survivalist psyche compensates with defense mechanisms that filter reality, which are stored in the unconscious to keep the psyche functional. These filters are conditioned as part of the identity/ego (beliefs, patterns, abilities, memories).

    2. As the psyche experiences more suffering caused by impermanence, the psyche forms a strong and clear desire (motivated by pain) for "Nibbana" (truth beyond empirical knowledge, as a lasting and ideal happiness found in the here-now, and to give it back to others) not "samsara," per se (to speak of them dualistically).

    3. First the psyche gains awareness of itself, which is prior to deep change, and which preliminarily defuses the defenses.

    4. The psyche becomes aware of many things:
    A. This is a *macro-process* which is *entirely* located in dependently originated causal factors located in the past as a whole and also in the present body and environment. The prior (very powerful) desire *will* lead to success over the imbalanced ego because there are ample opportunities to change.
    B. All emotional problems are created by the psyche that lacks ego strength, so one should aim to be troubled by *nothing.*
    C. This perspective is learned. That is, the perspective is one of journey not goal, living in acceptance (eg acceptance of others' perspectives, loss of attachments, or of what one doesn't control), of knowing all paths are unique, that one must fix oneself before helping others, the necessity of a positive perspective. These are all *processes.*
    D. One notices that there is a quick, easy, certain, harmful path of illusion and a long term, vague, difficult, desirable path of Dharma or cosmic Law one has happened upon.
    E. One uses physical action when necessary (when one least wants to).
    F. One finds that those who were closest least understand and so branches out for support.
    G. One facilitates humility by seeing sameness, connecting through imperfection, and letting go of spiritual "goals" or comparisons.
    H. One sees there is no right/wrong in events, only events.
    I. One sees (in this stage of transformation) that all thought and speech are ego related and so minimizes them.
    J. One sees the role of the intellect is only to implement Dharma over the survivalist complex to purify one's karmas.
    K. One sees people are a major challenge to the ego as they live in society and work on all this.
    L. One disregards empirical knowledge and sees that more pertinently thought/brain *is* reality and so seeks to "program" it to know its formerly hidden/obscured psyche as it *really*/objectively is.

    5. Interestingly, this state of self awareness is the state where one is beyond the troubles of attachments in the here-now by necessity due to the logical structure of this argument. So this is called the aforementioned Nibbana or enlightenment and it is "proven" as best I can at the moment in logic (best to say "explained"), interestingly at the intersection of lots of stuff due to the brain-thought-reality aspects also.
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    I thought logic was a barrier to nirvana. One may use it as a tool to analyze nirvana but not as a means to attaining it.

    A stumbling block, yes, a stepping stone, no.
  • Deleted User
    0
    That's not quite related to what I meant here, as there is no way to logicize Nibbana itself of course. I agree with you on that as far as mindfulness and maintaining an empty and focgsed mind and a perspective beyond analysis goes. This post is more of a descriptive overstructure of one path to nibbana, it helped keep me "organized" mentally.

    Forgot to post:
    So in summation, one creates suffering for oneself because of these ego defenses during the path of illusion, so if one knows oneself as one really is in reality one is in a state of satisfaction. To think about that statement deeply is wow, that is a powerful thing to recognize.
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Well, it's not a crime to analyze stuff.

    Nirvana is game of course.

    Yet, as you already know, nirvana is beyond rationality, so they say.

    I like the way you put nirvana under the psychological lens. It does seem that we're just engaging in mental masturbation, meaning nothing really to die for.

    Yet, where's the person who doesn't like to play with himself every now and then.
  • Deleted User
    0
    I see what you mean about the psychological aspect, and how we can basically interpret it how we want. As with everything in philosophy, the inner meaning of what I mean obviously is not communicable. But I think there will be a spectrum of people who will see that to them it is a little more motivating than mental masturbation. Well, it is for me!
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k


    I think psychology reveals how our minds work and to put nirvana in that context does reveal interesting stuff.

    Why would somebody leave a comfortable life in a palace and run off into the forest? A pressing concern to alleviate some psychological distress, Freud would've said. I'm sure you'd agree and I do too.

    Yet, there's truth in Buddhism. The world is truly a place of suffering and people don't want to suffer. Impermanence, a Buddhist doctrine, is an undeniable truth. A major chunk of our suffering can be attributed to attachment to the ephemeral.

    So, Buddha is as a patient of Freud but the truths of Buddhism stand unrefuted even to date.

    As far as nirvana is concerned, nobody knows what it is. The most common approximation I get from people is ''a blissful state''. And here to biology, if not psychology, interrupts the tempo. The feeling of happiness is a biochemical reaction and there are limits to the length and degree of happiness that can be attained.

    I guess science has a way of ''exposing'' old theories.
  • Deleted User
    0
    Well I would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I would wait for science to further understand the mystic entity of "Kundalini" (which I have awakened and raised, so I know personally the ins and outs of the blisses and passing events, etc.).

    Either way, it doesn't have to be taken as a state of bliss as far as the argument goes; I mean I regard the bliss as a side effect at times; call it peace of mind and a reality shift which is far more... meaningful. Is love or connection just pleasure? Well here at least, it is entailed because the negative aspects of the ego are removed as one attains the peace/self awareness.. once what seemed to be difference becomes sameness and I see myself for who I really am, I see it is an interconnected mess of factors that can never be clearly separated out in logic here; interestingly enough, since this is an emotional awareness of the actual nature of the mind (pure), it is related to feelings of unity and compassion/love. Hence what everyone says about this state and the mind of the Buddha.
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Mysticism is appealing. I too am drawn by the esoteric, especially secret wisdom. I think that fascination hasn't been dampened by science to the extent expected as we can guess from books and movies like star wars, lord of the rings, harry potter, etc.

    It has been partially replaced by science fiction but that can be taken to be a more ''realistic'' take on what is essentially mystical thinking.

    Anyway, I hope that there's something beyond the mere physical or, in a more scientific sense, more to the physical than just what meets the eye.
  • Deleted User
    0
    (I added to the last comment)

    And thanks for the good discussion which furthered my understanding
  • Deleted User
    0
    Here is an example set in causal order:
    Trauma = happens to everybody
    Inner anger and displaced anger, addictive behavior = path of illusion, defenses/filters
    Awareness of reality and self = see who you really are
    Opposite action = gain control over emotional mind
    Peace/stability/perspective = nibbana, here now, generated in one's own brain not by impermanent external pleasures/attachments, nothing bothers you (eg "failure" or "success")
  • Deleted User
    0
    I mean in the texts they take a hard line approach. Ur son dies and ur in Nibbana and you know the truth so it doesn't bother you. That's what I mean at one end of the spectrum. Ur fully integrated into God/truth. Ur with ur son at all times, he's part of the truth and so ru so why be bothered. I like that as a goal if anything. I get it. People in modern society are lacking perspective at times, ancient ppl got this very well.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.