• chromechris
    2
    Hi, I'm new here. This is going to be my first post, so pardon in advance me if my post is of low quality and does not meet the guidelines. I decided to give this forum a shot because I usually like to question things and try to find answers to certain things in life, but usually don't have much people to talk about these things with because lots of them are not interested. Anyhow, the purpose of this post is to question if the existence of a "God" is a moral thing. The following are just examples and ideas that "assume" a God exists for the purpose of explaining why I think the existence of a God is immoral.

    I was a pretty devoted Christian for about 4-5 years (I am now agnostic). I was convinced of the existence of God, and I tried to prove God's existence in my head when faced with cues or facts that questioned such existence of "him". One day I thought about whether it was fair for God to be ultimately in charge of my life, simply because he gave it to me. Obviously I couldn't consent to be born or not, since I did not exist before being "created " by God. This means like everyone else in this world, I had no say in the becoming of my existence. Since God gives himself the credit of creating me (without my consent), he decides to also give himself the ultimate authority over my being. I do not see this as moral. I can compare the God-to-human relation to a parent-to-child relationship. According to most societies, children are under their parents authority for the first 18 years (ordinarily) of the child's life. Once the child is of legal age, and can be responsible for their own survival, such authority over the adult child's life is then transferred from the parent to the adult child him/her self. Even though the parent gave the child life biologically and nurtured the child physically and emotionally during the child's early years, once the child reached independence, authority of that child's life was stripped from the parents and the adult child came to have authority over his/her own life.

    If the above parent-to-child relationship is a moral way of life, whey then should there exist a being who forever has authority over one's life. A God to me seems like a slave owner, who by virtue can never be overcome. The existence of a God to me seems immoral. Do any of you see the existence of a God immoral based on what I just explained, or is what I am thinking nonsensical?
  • Wayfarer
    8.7k
    . Obviously I couldn't consent to be born or not, since I did not exist before being "created " by God. This means like everyone else in this world, I had no say in the becoming of my existence. Since God gives himself the credit of creating me (without my consent), he decides to also give himself the ultimate authority over my being.chromechris

    that's a deep moral quandary. However one thing you might consider is that the Biblical notion of 'creation' doesn't actually equate to the physical act of birth. Although the details are very murky, it's the soul that is 'created', not the body, per se. That in turn introduces many complexities about whether the body and soul are separable, and again, although Christian doctrine is not that clear on it, the implicit idea is that the soul is immortal, while the body is perishable.

    Plato certainly seemed to believe that the soul pre-existed the body, because he thought that the soul possessed all knowledge before 'falling' into physical birth. Interestingly, one of the very early Greek-speaking theologians, Origen, taught a doctrine of the pre-existence of souls, which was 'anathematized' (declared a heresy) very early in the Christian era. Since that time Christian eschatology ('fate of the soul') has been rather confused, in my view.

    Another archetypal theme from world religions is that of exile and return. That can also be applied to the physical journey through life, i.e. the soul 'falls' into worldly existence and at the end of life 'returns' to its divine source (from whence images of 'heavenly creator' are derived). So in those kinds of myths, the soul's journey through mortal life is only part of its identity.

    The notion that the soul somehow survives or is separable from the physical body seems an ubiquitous belief in various religions, although it's hard to fathom from a naturalistic viewpoint.

    Do any of you see the existence of a God immoral based on what I just explained, or is what I am thinking nonsensical?chromechris

    Most atheists would agree with you, and I'm not necessarily wanting to argue for a theistic perspective. However, I think your notion of 'God' is deficient, in that you're basically equating God with a kind of super-person, like an uber adult.
  • Sherbert
    5
    Is your boss at work immoral because he/she is your boss?

    Are police immoral? The government?

    It does not matter to me if you are a theist or not.

    “Ya gotta serve someone....”
  • OmniscientNihilist
    117
    A God to me seems like a slave owner,chromechris

    stop thinking of god as a separate person

    move our mind towards an unpersonal spirit here now
  • alcontali
    802
    I was convinced of the existence of God, and I tried to prove God's existence in my head when faced with cues or facts that questioned such existence of "him".chromechris

    In my opinion, someone who tries to prove the existence of God, is not truly a believer in God. In that sense, you never really believed. You only somehow pretended that you did.

    According to most societies, children are under their parents authority for the first 18 years (ordinarily) of the child's life.chromechris

    No, that is just an arbitrary, western view. In other societies, parents usually remain in authority until they die. That would be the view of around 85% of humanity.

    In other words, your entire argument existentially depends on an undetected western ethnocentric twist that is absolutely not universal at all.

    It is a very conflict-prone and even dangerous practice to generalize the opinions of merely 15% of the world population to the unwilling, remaining 85%. It has led to violent combat in the past and will undoubtedly lead to new, violent combat in the future. I suspect that many more millions, if not hundreds of millions, will die over this.

    So, no, your views are not universal at all.
    Seriously, they are not.
    Understanding that principle may even save you your life one day.

    A God to me seems like a slave owner, who by virtue can never be overcome. The existence of a God to me seems immoral.chromechris

    In terms of what system of morality would that be immoral?

    Either you reason within a system, or else you reason about a system, because in all other cases you are doing system-less bullshit.
  • chromechris
    2
    I mean, I definitely was a believer because logic and facts took a long time and effort to convince me otherwise. I don't think many people in America have died because of becoming independent from their parents. I think it is a good think to bring up these questions about morality. It helps you think more critically about your religion if you are able to compare such to the "real" world, even if it's just in small ways. Because my views are not universal is the reason that I bring the topic up, so that I can get to see the views of others at least in this forum, and understand why such people have their specific views.
  • alcontali
    802
    Because my views are not universal is the reason that I bring the topic upchromechris

    It is perfectly ok that your views are not universal, but in that case, do not try to present them as such. There are multiple belief systems on the globe, with two or three major ones, and dozens of minor ones.

    The communities around a belief system have their own views on various matters of morality. Sometimes I would not adopt these views by myself, but I will usually, readily acknowledge that they seem to work fine for that community.

    Furthermore, if you no longer like tennis, then try football instead. Going through life as an anti-tennis person is silly, ridiculous, and actually counterproductive. Tennis may not work for you, but it surely works for other people. So, just get something else to believe in, strive for, and aspire to, instead of criticizing what otherwise seems to work fine for other people.
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