If you read the text (which is also Cohen's problem), you could figure that out on your own. — Swan

Guilty as charged. I can't read. I have a real serious problem with ADD or ADHD. I can't read long texts, and can't read anything that tires me out and I need to spend energy to keep my focus on it.

That said, it is not important that I understand your stand, @Swan. It is important that @Coben understands you. My participation here is now reduced to confuse both of you, while the original intention was to bring the two of you on the same denominator, without my getting involved in the discussion or my making judgment or my taking sides.

I'm always dismissive. It's kind of my thing. It's her thing, too. But I'm better at it. — S

Okay, never mind. Carry on.

It's short for Aswang. — Shamshir

:rofl:

It's short for Aswang. — Shamshir

How do I parse that? "A swang", or "Ass wang"? Latter by pronunciation, not by spelling.

Guilty as charged. I can't read. I have a real serious problem with ADD or ADHD. I can't read long texts, and can't read anything that tires me out and I need to spend energy to keep my focus on it. — god must be atheist

Well...

That said, it is not important that I understand your stand, Swan. It is important that @Coben understands you. — god must be atheist

Sure it is. If you're attempting to (reduce) confusion between two opponents - it is best you know the bare minimum of what concepts are being discussed, and where the confusion meshes (and bring us "both on the same denominator". Playing as some "middle man" benefits both sides if you have an understanding (at minimum) of the ideas being presented and where the misinterpretations are happening.

Otherwise, you're just playing some emotional crutch/validation agent, which is fine, but not really needed. You haven't reduced any confusion, just validated what I said. Doesn't require "taking" sides, but you've already involved yourself in the discussion as is.

--

Also want to add there is a significant difference (for me anyway), between reading, interpreting and still not understanding and not reading/not listening AND not interpreting, then not understanding. The former signifies clarification or alternative explanation, the other signifies ending of discussion.

Like a boss.

may have focused too much on the emotion and not this part and this could have been part of us talking past each other. — Coben

Fair. That's literally all my post was saying the first time around. For what it's worth I don't even think we disagree with each other.

I found this a little tricky to understand. If I missed it my apologies, but could you go into the kinds of reactions that I brought up a couple of times, where people feel hatred for employers or other people with power, where they cannot really confront the person and there is something abusive or chronically disrespectful on the employers part (or the employee thinks so). I think similar dynamics can occur related to issues of sexism, homophobia, racism, where for me it makes sense to say that these patterns elicit hate. I would also say that longer term relationships, especially where there is an eventual split, say in a divorce can have significant periods, and repeated moods of hate. I think this is what the people say. In my own experiences - around friend's parents, relationships I have been around, and once for me - this is not just anger or rage or disgust coming in quickly and leaving
— Coben

I don't understand what point you're trying to make with these examples; I am not claiming "hate does not exist," or saying that "hate" is not an emotion or something. I say that the textbook definition (and your definition) of hate is inadequate - same as "misogynist" - and prefer to evaluate whether someone genuinely hates X by further examination and reflection - and demonstrate that what this person is actually exhibiting is, in fact "hatred", rather than taking their word for it - or relying solely on fleeting "reactions" in the moment that pose no meaningful differences from other "emotions" that are merely reactions - or repulsion to something (e.g. social avoidance, resentfulness, distrust, etc). There must be something there to spark potential for hatred (in my view) - not simply reactivity to what is foreign - there are certainly people that exist - that manage and train themselves to catch themselves and (mitigate) negative feelings before progression into hatred.

Someone could argue I hate you here, because you make me frustrated as all hell, I would say I don't - and further investigation into knowing me would demonstrate that not to be the case (there is simply no rapport between us).

More often than not, in my experience, when you confront a frustrated individual that goes around say, "I hate this, I hate that" - they reiterate that not to be actually the case (in the case of Steve), they were just confused - or just "didn't like the taste," .. and so forth, or were simply bitter. "Hatred" is not meaningful for me unless put into (behaviors/harmful practices) via patterns - and usually prolonged, as you say there, (e.g chronic disrespect, back-stabbing, etc) - and I do make the distinction between "hatred in politics/ideology" (e.g. racism, sexism, etc - hatred in policies/law) from trivialities such as "hating the color blue".

Are there people, like Susan that truly feels "hatred" for her boss, absolutely yes. Are there racists and homophobes that feel hatred, absolutely yes. Nowhere in my post is arguing against that.

I wouldn't use misogynist for a person who blurts out that they hate women. I agree it would have to be part of a long term pattern. At least, I think I am agreeing with what you wrote. I am not talking about short moments of catharsis. — Coben

I think we are getting closer to understanding one another. I am not at a loss of what you mean, btw. I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

And in fact I am glad that misogyny came up, because I do think it is fairly widespread in society, but would not consider using it for what you are saying above does not count as true misogeny. IOW I see this as rather widespread and that many of the patterns brought to light in the me too movement are signs of a hatred of women and also, given that women have often had to experience this in unequal power situations, a cause for hatred in response. — Coben

I think the very idea that misogyny persists in spite of it not corresponding to the inadequate and intimate definition of "hate for all women" - as there seems to be a disconnect here, is enough for you to be skeptical of simply jumping to the conclusion that hate is just an emotion, because that seems to not be the case.

In my generation anyway, "a hater" is a meaningless word utilized to assert and see "hate" where there isn't any. So, the cultural significance of the word in terms of language has severely deteriorated for me when I realized it was being misused or used interchangeably as ignorant substitutions and antagonistic projection.

I mention these types of situations because I think they are fairily common in society, most of them relation to power imalances and oftne chronic, because I do think hate is involved, and not just the trivial cathartic version you do not count. I also think that many of the people who do feel hatred are not in need of therapy, CBT or another, but often need a different boss, to get out of a bad relationship - despite the children, for example - and also potentially to fight against systematic hatred that some groups face. And sometimes it is not easy to extricate oneself from these patterns for various reasons. — Coben

Well the therapy thing was a bit exaggerated, sure. But, yeah, still, it doesn't hurt anyone to practice techniques - either meditative or otherwise, to combat negative emotion and deal with inevitably difficult situations that set the tone for "hatred" to potentially develop in the first place.

:blush: :hearts:

Also want to add there is a significant difference (for me anyway), between reading, interpreting and still not understanding and not reading/not listening AND not interpreting, then not understanding. The former signifies clarification or alternative explanation, the other signifies ending of discussion. — Swan

I concur. My posts are normally short and sweet, and people still (on another site, not here) only respond to the meaning covered in half of my sentences, completely altering the meaning I meant, since the second half of the sentence qualifies the first half.

This is a better site for that, and there are much fewer crazy people, although this site is also fully peppered by religious thinkers. Not that the religious would be crazy, craziness is randomly (or proportionally) distributed among the religious and the atheists. The only problem with the religious is that they don't have a healthy concept of science, they would rather believe their pastor or preacher than the current scientific findings. Or even well-established, historical ones.

I was talking in real life -- but I digress. I shall stop now.

I think hate is a natural response to that which makes a person feel vulnerable. — Tzeentch

We are the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet so you are correct in using vulnerable as a synonym. Our selfish gene is controlling our hate biases as well as our love biases.

Regards
DL

I don't understand why you framed your question like "what triggers hate?". It implies that you know what is hate. — TheMadFool

I think I know what creates or triggers hate and do know what it is, but I did not want to divulge it from the get go. I wanted to see what you guys thought first.

that trigger your hate are rather obvious truths about reality. Don't you hate it when you can't find the keys — TheMadFool

No. I do not hate such trivia. I just get annoyed and move on.

Psychology and sociology may be able to help us understand the origins of hate, what abets and perpetuates it. Presumably most explanations will invariably point the finger at human nature. — TheMadFool

From what I think I know, science has already shown that hate is born from love and we are born with a human nature that defaults to love. Love seems to create and trigger hate as a response to anything that might jeopardize what we love.

Should you embrace it? Do you like truth that much? — TheMadFool

I do as I prefer to be led by truth than lies.

Regards
DL

After all, arguing in this vein, it makes the existence of "love" possible! — Daniel C

In our dualistic reality, it could not be otherwise. That is why we should embrace our evil side.

Regards
DL

Love can exist just fine in absence of hatred and, depending on perspective, can be argued to best thrive when hatred is absent. — javra

I am not sure on this as even god said he was a jealous god when speaking of his love for us.

I admit that I have never been insecure in those I chose to love.

love devoid of hate can be experienced. Hate devoid of love cannot. — javra

I think that the love or hate we feel at all times are intertwined, as I showed above with love creating hate.

To the first question: Hatred then is triggered from a desire to defend that which is loved. — javra

The near perfect answer.

So, to me, the merits of embracing hatred are very much contingent upon what hatreds one holds. — javra

Which are determined by what one loves, which is why I did not like you trying to separate the Yin and Yang of love and hate.

Regards
DL

I don't think I've ever felt hatred or have the potential to. — Swan

Then I do not think you have learned to love fully.

It is pure stupidity and a product of the most primitive part of the brain; (which are usually the stupid parts). — Swan

I disagree, given that it is our instincts that have gotten us this far.

"Evil" is just Christian stuff. The opposite of good is not evil. — Swan

Those concepts were around way before Yahweh even thought of coveting a human woman for reproduction. The pig.

Embracing biases is almost like embracing willful ignorance. If you have the means, the options, and the tools to mitigate, lessen and reduce certain biases, why "embrace" them...? — Swan

I do not see those as equal and if you do not embrace your biases, good or evil, you likely will have a harder time mitigating the consequences. If you do not embrace them, you will not understand your own emotions.

You sound well beyond a minor/teen. — Swan

I hope so. My first born is 50. I am still a kid at heart.

Thanks for the well thought out post.

Regards
DL

I'd guess that the key ingredient in hatred is a feeling of inadequacy: — iolo

Are you talking self hatred here and jealousy towards others that you think better than you?

Regards
DL

Jesus said to love ourselves. That would include embracing our evil side. — Gnostic Christian BishopI agree with the spirit of this, but I don't consider hate evil. — Coben

As I showed above, I think the Yin and Yang of love and hate to be two sides that compliment each other. Yin and Yang are compliments to each other and not in opposition to each other.

If hate is not evil to you, how would you define it, as good?

Regards
DL

What I have a problem with is certain negative actions connected to hate, such as the initiation of nonconsensual violence. — Terrapin Station

I do not like violence either but if hate comes at me to hurt me, I will embrace the hate that drives me to retaliate.

Regards
DL

Hate might as well be about as meaningful as a curse word. — Swan

If you have been a victim of the standard mainstream homophobic and misogynous religions, then hate will mean more to you than just a minor irritant.

Hopefully, it will trigger your hate against homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL

I just think you shouldn't view bias with such discomfort and try to run away from it as from your own shadow. — Shamshir

Yep. Recognize and justify should be how we deal with all our biases, good or evil.

Regards
DL

a state of childish emotionalism. — iolo

Like this child is expressing?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/23/greta-thunberg-speech-un-2019-address

Adults should be more like her.

Regards
DL

Since the emotion of hate exists, it must have some kind of useful survival value. Just like all emotions, however, you will need to remain in control of them, because otherwise they could end up controlling you. — alcontali

I apply this to all human traits.

Regards
DL

647

"In order to truly hate others, you must first learn to hate thy own self." — god must be atheist

This cannot happen till one learns to love himself. In that sense, I agree with you.

Regards
DL

Recognize and rectify.

647

"In order to truly hate others, you must first learn to hate thy own self."
— god must be atheist

This cannot happen till one learns to love himself. In that sense, I agree with you. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Oh. I just meant it as a sarcastic expression of criticizing the parallel one about love that has been going around for a long time, for its own stupidity.

Sure you can love others without first learning how to love your own self. This type of unfounded, unintuitive psychobabble bullshit really irritates me.

Goinbroknstyle — Goinbroknstyle

I agree.

I have been waiting to have all here view this link that shows that we create a hate bias from our love biases in an automatic way. Love creates or triggers our hate biases.

If love creates hate, that is good enough for me to embrace both hate and love biases.
==================

FOR ALL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LIb22-5Lwg

Regards
DL

Then I do not think you have learned to love fully. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Let's be honest, you're just spamming/preaching mumbo-jumbo.

Honestly, who the fuck are you to speak on love as some pseudo-wise guy? I have loved and lost in disappointments, betrayal and death.

You actually just sound moronic; the inevitable doesn't elicit hatred or fear inside me, as you does you, Bishop.

god said he was a jealous god when speaking of his love for us. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

:smile: Reminds me of Nine Inch Nails song I like. "Bow down to the one you serve; you're going to get what you deserve" kind of thing. Why on earth should I bow down to an omnipotent hater? Give me eternal hell instead. I imagine one would get quite used to the flames after a while, anyway. :joke:

Besides, the archaic definition of jealousy is "concern for that which one is jealous of; vigilance; protective; guarding".

Which are determined by what one loves, which is why I did not like you trying to separate the Yin and Yang of love and hate. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Yea, pain and pleasure duality kind of thing. Reality has both. Still, in my experiences at least, when I've felt the most intense moments of love, hate was utterly absent - be this love platonic or otherwise. When I've hated, I've always loved that which what I've hated was antagonistic to. So, I maintain my conviction. Love can exist without hate; hate can't exist without love. One is essential; the other isn't.

The second. The way the world is organised, a vast number of people are pushed about all the time and can't do much about it - except perhaps vote for Trump or Brexit! :)

It implies that you know what is hate. — TheMadFool

Anyone who doesn't know what hate is is a moron. And anyone who says they haven't ever felt hatred is a liar.

I can't see any hate in this girl. She's just stating facts.