• Sunnyside
    33
    Your soul is your identity.
  • Bartricks
    626
    No, it is a thing with which I am identical.
  • Sunnyside
    33
    The soul is immaterial it cannot be a thing. Your consciousness is not a soul, you lose it every night. Your intellect is not a soul, it is merely a means with which to reason. Your brain is not a soul, it is only an object. The soul is who you are, your identity, it is an impression formed from information which we like to think is consistent over time.
  • Swan
    20


    Okay, maybe I used the incorrect words. This just seems like a lot of word play of technically this means that, and technically, that means this.

    What I meant was mind is brain - doing things and not mind is brain. And by 'generate' I don't mean the brain is creating 'immaterial' minds, but instead generating the illusion that it is doing just that.

    I think the OP took some leaps and I'm not sure how he concluded something indistinguishable from an illusion to be a soul and I'd be curious to ask him where his confidence comes from in distinguishing the two?
  • Swan
    20


    Yeah, I'm not sure how OP is getting immaterial soul out of a brain process. Maybe he will answer?
  • Pattern-chaser
    1.8k
    The soul is immaterial it cannot be a thing.Sunnyside

    Mathematics is immaterial, but I would have said it's also a thing? :chin:
  • Sunnyside
    33
    Mathematics is immaterial, but I would have said it's also a thing? :chin:Pattern-chaser
    I would think mathematics a product of a kind of logic, but could be mistaken. What would we consider mathematics though? The collective knowledge of all theorems and proofs in the field? I would think it a body of knowledge more than an existent singular something, which is what I intuit when I use the word thing. The word that comes to mind when I try to describe mathematics is subject which is sort of thing-esque being existent and singular. I guess the question is whether information exists as something in itself or only by it's interpretation, to determine if knowledge can exist separate from the knower. Now you've done it, I had to go and think!
  • Jimmy
    15
    Anything that creates a shadow from the sun has a soul. Our spirits are here to observe.
  • Jimmy
    15
    True? I'm being optimistic here
  • Jimmy
    15
    Mind blowing hey? I've got the answers.
  • Bartricks
    626
    No, the 'mind' is an object - it is whatever object is bearing our conscious states.
    So, someone who believes that conscious states are being borne by some kind of extended thing - such as our brain - is someone who believes that the mind is a material object.
    I am arguing that the mind is an immaterial thing. By an 'immaterial thing' I mean an object that lacks material properties, such as extension.

    I have presented several arguments for this thesis, each one deductively valid and with extremely plausible premises.

    For example;

    1. Any material object is divisible
    2. My mind is not divisible.
    3. therefore, my mind is not a material object.
  • Bartricks
    626
    There are no leaps in any of my arguments. Each argument is deductively valid - that is, its conclusion must be true if the assumptions are. And so in each case the only issue is whether the assumptions are true.

    So, here is one:

    1. No object that has sensible properties has mental properties.
    2. All material objects have sensible properties
    3. Therefore, no material object has mental properties
    4. My mind has mental properties
    5. Therefore, my mind is not a material object
  • Bartricks
    626
    No, that's clearly false. The lump of cheese in front of me is casting a shadow and it is the sun that is responsible for that. Yet manifestly the lump of cheese in front of me has no mental properties. For while it makes perfect sense for me to wonder what the lump of cheese might feel, taste or smell like, it makes not a blind bit of sense for me to wonder what it thinks like. Thus, my reason and the reason of all sane people positively represents the cheese - and all other shadow-casting objects - to be lacking in mental states and thus not to be minds.
    Anyway, good luck starting your cult.
  • Bartricks
    626
    And I am unclear why you have said that "your consciousness is not your soul". I know! Consciousness is not a thing, but a state of a thing.
    The mind is the thing - whatever it may be - that is, or can be, in a state of consciousness.

    The reason I am the same person - the same mind, that is - both before and after a period of unconsciousness is precisely because I am my mind not my consciousness. I am conscious, but I am not consciousness.
  • Swan
    20


    I don't think that's how it works.
  • Bartricks
    626
    Well your thoughts do not determine what's true.
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